Well, they're not German...

[Gerd Becker]

Fantastic stories,Greg. I really enjoyed the last hour reading the experiences of your father. Thanks for sharing these stories and the best wishes to your father.

best regards,
Gerd

[Greg Sebring]

Fantastic stories,Greg. I really enjoyed the last hour reading the experiences of your father. Thanks for sharing these stories and the best wishes to your father.

best regards,
Gerd

Thanks Gerd,....it's my pleasure to pass these along. I hope I can get my new contact to join as I would love to have him elaborate on his Dad's recollections. He did tell me in an earlier e-mail he has lost his sight and teachs Psychology in Burlington, VT. I was really glad he took the time to contact me.

Best wishes for the New Year

Greg

[Sergey]

Dad told me that when the 82nd Airborne was stationed in Berlin to help with security of the American Sector, they had nothing but problems with the Soviet forces. Across from the barracks where Dad was assigned was a cemetery. Dad said that from the time they were first assigned there to the time they were ordered back to the States, over 300 Russian soldiers were buried in the cemetery from having met an untimely demise by the American Airborne forces. Dad said it resulted from regularly finding dead American G.I.'s in the street almost every morning somewhere in Berlin ... several with Russian stillettos in their backs. There was an intense distrust that grew to a hatred between the Americans and Soviets. Dad even said they had a term for the nightime "activities". They called it "Rooskie hunting" . I was quite surprised when Dad first told me about it because I had this picture of the allies all working in harmony for the same cause. Dad said the Russians were as ruthless, cruel, inhumane to the German people as the "SS". Little was mentioned in the press about the post-war conflicts as politics started playing into everything. The nice Walther P-38 with exceptional hard shell holster that Dad has was "liberated" from a Russian...much to the reds dismay. Dad told me on guard duty one night he was Sergeant of the Guard and was responsible for a couple of bridges over a river. This was post war and the Allies all agreed that the traffic over all bridges in every sector was to cease at 11:00 PM. If you were caught on the wrong side when the bridge was closed....too bad. You waited until the next morning. Dad told me quite often American G.I.'s would straggle back having shacked up somewhere with some Frau/Frauline. He would always let them pass on their way. Vehicular was totally banned. One night Dad said a Russian staff car with four officers tried to cross his bridge after 11PM. Dad made hand gestures to them pointing to his watch, making a circular motion with his finger, and pointing back the way they came from. Dad said they cursed at the American guards and slowly turned around driving out of sight. Dad thought there would be further trouble so he told the other guards to wait for him to fire if it came to that. Dad added shortly they heard an engine reving and tires squealing. The staff car was approaching rapidly and was going to crash the gate. Dad said when the car was near, He, and then the other G.I.'s opened fire on the staff car with their Thompsons. The staff car careened off the bridge and into the water. When the heads popped up above the water they were sent back down for good with additional bursts. Dad said he was called into the Captains office for debriefing the next morning. The Captains main and only concern was that no one got away. Dad assured him no one did. This apparently was common all over and much was done to keep things quiet. Dad added he even sold rolled toilet paper to the Russian soldiers on the blackmarket as cigarette rolling papers. They would buy anything and everything with their military script. I guess you could say the "Cold War" started in Berlin.

Hello «human guys» I would say some words about «Russian ruthless, cruel, inhumane to the German people as the "SS"».<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

At first guys I must remind that America started active war actions in the end of WW2 and not on the USA area, while Russia be at war from 1941 and on the Russian area. Before May of 1945 we won in some great battles: by Moscow, Kursk, Stalingrad e.t.c. …..and we lost DOZENS MILLIONS people! Including dead in civilians…fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, children….in almost every family. We had crushed cities, parched villages, sometimes with all its citizens (including alive parched women and children). Every day during 4 years (if you safe!) your might see only dead companions, after all that I don’t understand How it is possible to tell that Russian ruthless, cruel, inhumane to the German people as the "SS"».<o></o>

I think it is naturally that Russian people become inhumane to the German people, and I think they had the right for that. I agree that cold war started in Berlin, but such sort of stories like about selling of rolled toilet paper as cigarette paper explain the fact that now Russians treat more kindly to their ex-enemies than to their ex-ally’s. However Russian veterans, who had contacts with Americans soldiers during the war or remember overseas aid of America, always speak well about Americans, when I asked them to tell something.<o></o>

[Greg Sebring]

Sergey,

It was not my attempt to inflame anyone or point fingers when I made that post. I am well aware of the horrors and sacrifices the Russian people made at the hands of the Germans. I have seen pictures of the manicured rows of mounds that each contain 10,000 bodies. I based my comment on what my Father told me he had personal knowledge of. Russian soldiers would ride the trains and accost German civilians after the war. The soldiers would carry pliers with them and check the teeth of the German civilians. If any gold teeth were found they were extracted on the spot using the pliers. Any resistance was met with immediate death. This kind of behavior is incomprehensible to most Americans.....as is what the SS and other units did in the many camps. It serves no purpose to try and list the attrocities committed by both sides. This was a terrible nightmare that occurred 60 years ago and we all have learned from it. The progress our countries both enjoy today can be attributed from mistakes we made in the past. I do appologize if you took my post personally.

Regards,

Greg

[Fred Borgmann]

Sergey, What happen is very understandable but we must all remember the old saying that 2 wrongs don't make it right. Fred

[Michael Loeke]

Hello Sergey,

from the beginning of the german russian war, it was common that russians murdered german prisoners and massakered red cross points with wounded.

The russians where ruthless, cruel, inhumame even to their people.
A life ment nothing to them.
Like Stalin said, one dead person is a tragedy but thousands is just a statistik.

The german medic's, red cross units, hospitlas in russia helped thousends of russian people with first aid, medicine.

The russian forces whre ruthless,cruel and inhumane to rumanien, hungerien
and even polish people.
Just speak to people of these countries.

There is no excuse for killing wimmen, children and babys

Tell me one russian city where the german army rapped over 100.000
wimmen.
I could name BERLIN, KÖNIGSBERG....

It was Stalin, the russian propaganda and the kommissar in the units which had the responsability for this.

What about the russian war (1939/40)against finnland?
What about the russian ocupation(bevore 1941) of litauen, lettland,estland?

Thousends of ukrainien men fought on the german side for their country.

Bye
from a ruthless german

Michael

[Sergey]

Hello Sergey,

from the beginning of the german russian war, it was common that russians murdered german prisoners and massakered red cross points with wounded.

The russians where ruthless, cruel, inhumame even to their people.
A life ment nothing to them.
Like Stalin said, one dead person is a tragedy but thousands is just a statistik.

The german medic's, red cross units, hospitlas in russia helped thousends of russian people with first aid, medicine.

The russian forces whre ruthless,cruel and inhumane to rumanien, hungerien
and even polish people.
Just speak to people of these countries.

There is no excuse for killing wimmen, children and babys

Tell me one russian city where the german army rapped over 100.000
wimmen.
I could name BERLIN, KÖNIGSBERG....

It was Stalin, the russian propaganda and the kommissar in the units which had the responsability for this.

What about the russian war (1939/40)against finnland?
What about the russian ocupation(bevore 1941) of litauen, lettland,estland?

Thousends of ukrainien men fought on the german side for their country.

Bye
from a ruthless german

Michael

Today after 60 years, many people may be forgot some facts of WWII. I must to say that every war is harshness and WWII was the most terrible than others. But I would remind that Germany was aggressor in that war and German nation started this war. I know that Russians was inhumane to the German people even after the war, but it was a reaction for their brutality on the Russian area and I think it was naturally. I think if Americans had more information about horrible things, perpetrated by German soldiers in Russia, they understand why Russians were so violently to German people after the war. Personally I can’t tell nothing about Russian cities, where was rapped 100000 women, but I know one city where during the war died 970000 people, mostly women and children. It is Leningrad. Also I can tell you about the shooting of 60 wounded in a hospital near Volokolamsk – it is about the help to Russian wounded. Of about 120000 dead bodies in Harkow after the occupation by German army, on every lamppost was suspended dead body there, e.t.c. To the end of the war officially we had of about 20 MILLIONS of killed people. IS it humanely? It is not Stalin propaganda.Do you really think that German people might wait humanity after all, what happened in Russia? It will be incorrect and very strange on my sight, to tell about any inhumanity of Russians. I don’t justify the Soviet soldiers, who rapped and killed in Germany, but I would like to remind also about the same brutality of Germans in Russia before that, because it will be fairly. You say about thousands Ukrainians fought on the German side? I am ashamed for them. While Thousands Tatars, Ukrainians, Russians, Georgians and other «Ostvolkers» fought on the enemy side, another millions of their brothers display courage and died for the Motherland. We can conclude after that war that any war is always disaster for combatants and we must remember before start, that war always has the terrible consequences even after the end…

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[RayG]

Greg, if it has not been done already, send your dad a tape recorder with a lot of tapes and have him tape everthing he can remember. Tell him to have the tape player handy and when he thinks of something to record it. Make sure he sends you each tape as he completes it so it doesn't get misplaced. Great stories, thank you for posting them, Ray

[Michael Loeke]

Hello Sergey,


in september 1939 germany marched into poland from the west
and the russians marched into poland from the east.
(seams like we have a second aggressor).
The land they occupied, they never gave back to poland!!!

What about the finnisch/russian war 1939/40 who was the aggressor
As far as I know history the russians where the attackers.

What about the occupation of litauen, lettland and estland by the russians
Who was the aggressor? russia as far as I know.

Under the terror regime of Stalin during the 1930tes how many people died?
Millions starved?

Victor Suworow (former officer of the red army). wrote a very interesting book about the russians planing to attack germany in the jear 1941.
Hitler managed to strike first, to prevent the russian attack on germany.

I. Why where there russian bookletts (translations from russian/german)
made for the russian tropps.

II Stalins son Josef which was a officer in a russian artillerieregiment no. 14
became a pow on july 19th 1941.
The germans asked him why his regiment did such a bad job in shotting
he replayed: we only had maps of germany and no maps of the russian country.

III....................

Even a polish historian(rafael jablonski) wrote in the Warschau Newspaper "Kulisy"
that stalin was planing the attack on germany.

Lew Kopelew a former officer in the red army of WW2 wrote a book
about the russian doing horrible things against german civilians
in ostpreußen (east prussia).
And he couldn't do much against it.

(draging wimmen to death by hanging them behind a jeep or a truck)

These books and a few more should be printed in english.

Some document:

June 22nd 1941 russians soldiers shoot a wounded german soldier at Mosty-male

June 22nd 1941 a german pilit which managed to parashute from his burning lane over Bialystok was shot after investigation by the russians.

June 22nd 1941 a nother Pilot was capured at Dziembrow taken to Minsk at shot on June 25th 1941

June 22nd or 23rd 2 german wounded where found on a street from Edriejavas to Rietavas (Litauen) killed by bayonett and a rifle which was jused to crush the face.

June 23rd 1941at Suwalki 3 german prisoners get shot .

end of june 1941 14 german prisoners being tyed up and get killed by using bayonetts and spades.

July3rd 1941 in the NKWD building at lemberg 4 german aircrew men being found murdered.

June 28 th 1941 about 20 butchered german soldiers are found by Sobrasl

June 28 th 1941 near Bialystok about 18 wounded german soldiers are killed by shooting, bayonett and spade.

I could go on up to about 300 cases of the jear 1941.

The russian brutallity begann on the first day of that war.
This was no reaction because of german brutality.

Why are you shammed about the thousends of ukrainien fought on the german side.
Just like the people of LITAUEN, ESTLAND... the ukrainiens wanted their own country.
Well now they finally have it .

Bye

Michael

[Greg Sebring]

Michael/Sergey,

I realize I started this recent discussion when my Dad's observations were read. It was his opinion and I just passed it on. Now we have a "fingerpointing" match going on and neither one of you are going change your minds because of what the other one says. The History books have been printed and most of us feel confident they accurately portray what happened and who did what. Can we leave it at that? Everyone has changed since those dark days of the 1940's and nobody is implying that either of you are stuck in a time warp. You both made your points very clearly.

Greg

[Angel Farré]

Please, stop this useless discussion, Russia has his Stalin and Germany has his Hitler, neither were good men or governments, but they are there in the books and always will be there. If you want to start discussions find another forum, not this. I have a degree in History so don't try to show me what happen when dictatorships appears as a way to govern, I know it, I have seen what it made to my country (with the help of russians and germans) and I don't want to see it again. It's not a matter if one or the other was more brutal or bloody, just a matter of never repeat it. I don't want to insult Germans remembering what Hitler made, nor Russiand with Stalin, they are just history and we must remember both so never repeated.

Greg, please continue talking about your father expierence.

Angel

[Sergey]

Guys, It is worse, than I thought, If you opinion based on such source as Suvorov’s books. Why not on the comics or yellow press? But I understand why he is so popular. May be it is because that he writes what you want? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

I would like to say what I personally think about that author: ex -Red Army officer Suvorov is a good businessman but not the historian. I don’t assert that Stalin’s politic wasn’t aggressive. But I think when you start so serious theme you must accurate, stick to the subject and… used reputable sources. Tell me please why you start always talk about Latvia, Finland, Poland e.t.c, when we start talk about brutality of Germans in Russia and brutality of Russians in Germany? Why In this case you don’t say anything about occupation of Chech, Poland, Austria, France e.t.c. I wouldn’t accuse anybody, I would only so as when you start to tell about Russians inhumanity to the Germans after the war, you must always say about all brutality of Germans in Russia, because it is incorrect and people who don’t know all about that war can’t make objective appraisal. And you are right we must stop this theme. <o></o>

<o></o>

[Michael Loeke]

Sergey,

you have your opinion and I have mine (comic opinion ).

I don't want to answer your last replay in detail.

Just like Greg and Angel wrote, we made are points very clearly.

Looking forward to the next story of Greg's father.

Bye

Michael<O</O<O</O<O</O

[Sergey]

Michael, I understood that it is senselessly to tell anything, when I heared about Suvorov's books And Greg's father could tell also about Americans, who also raped German women- I think it will be not so funny for you.

Sergey,

you have your opinion and I have mine (comic opinion ).

I don't want to answer your last replay in detail.

Just like Greg and Angel wrote, we made are points very clearly.

Looking forward to the next story of Greg's father.

Bye

Michael<O</O<O</O<O</O

[Greg Sebring]

Lets change the direction a bit....

Dad has mentioned to me several times when he was in Belgium. He and several of his buddies stayed at a farm and became good friends with the family living there. The family had a small dairy and Dad was very impressed with how they ran it. The barn had a milking parlour attached to it. From the milking parlour you could go right into the house. So, it was possible to do the milking and never have to go outside. Dad said the milking parlour had a red tile floor and it was scrubbed down very thourghly with EACH milking. Dad added you could eat off the floor and there was no cow smell whatsoever. One day, Dad was able to get some popcorn. The Belgium family had never seen popcorn before and were curious when Dad ask the farmers wife for a large pan. Dad popped this huge pan of popcorn using a big scoop of fresh creamery butter. After some salt, all the G.I.'s and the Belgium family feasted on the corn. Dad said the family really thought that was something very special. The man of the house took the time to write a full page letter in his native language and mailed it to Dad's girlfriend (later to be my mother) back in the states. She got it translated and Dad still has the letter in one of his scrapbooks. Dad has often wondered if he wrote to the address today, if anyone there now would know anything about the family. From that point on, the Belgium family sort of adopted Dad and his buddies and made sure they were made as comfortable as possible while in that area.