u boat badge with diamonds

[Mike Coleman]

I need the opinion of those wiser than I. My gut feeling is that this is a fake but I want to be sure. A U Boat badge with diamonds has been offered to me by an antiques dealer who knows of my interest in German awards. It comes with the usual good story that most of these things come with. What it does not come with is paper work, case or owner's name. I will send photos when I can figure out how to work my digital camera but I think from the description an opinion can be formed.
The badge in question is in near perfect condition with only minor wear on the high spots of the badge. The finish is matt gold. The style of the badge is that of Foster and Barth and matches exactly the front and back details of the badge shown in C Ailsby's book even down to the variations in the thickness of the rim in back. I took it to a jewler and the stones are real diamonds. The edges have very fine parallel lines that look like file or strike lines. They are almost microscopic. All detail is sharp and crisp. It is a nicely made piece.
Now for the deviations from the one in the book: The diamonds are round and have a flat facet on the top. My understanding is that a rose cut diamond comes to a point on the top. The jeweler said nobody does rose cuts any more but he felt it could go either way and with diamonds that small a cutter would try to put a top or table facet on it to give it more "fire". The other problem area is the clasp marking. The clasp is correct in shape and size but is only marked with 800. The 800 is in a box and in the same position as in the book but there is no LDO number present.
I have never seen or handled either a real or fake badge of this sort so I am at a loss. What do you all think? Is it trash or treasure?

[Gordon Williamson]

Sorry, but my guess is trash, not treasure. I don't believe the "Foerster & Barth" type hollow back badge is original to the period.
The only confirmed maker is Schwerin. There is some evidence that Juncker may have made one single piece on special order for the family of a specific individual but this is as yet unproven.
There has also been speculation on Godet possibly manufacturing one, possibly again even only a single piece.
Bottom line is that the only pieces for which absolute provenance can be found are all Schwerin, understandably as they were THE manufacturer of KM WAr Badges.
Foerster & Barth ? Nah, I don't think so. I am convinced they are postwar fantasy pieces. Trust your gut feeling, it is almost certainly right.


Gordon

[Mike Coleman]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson. I certainly appreciate and respect your opinion. Mike C.

[stogieman]

Not unless..........

..........it's under $200. I've seen quite a few of these diamond badges in the last year with the 800 silver mark incused into a small box. The mark is under the pin, on the pin or on the back. Superb looking quality, real stones, couple were cased and cases and stones were not UV-reactive, However, all were post WW2 manufactured items. Pretty, but not real. I believe all were made in Germany/Austria, with at least 2 having come to the US via England.

[stogieman]

and another......

here's another one I saw, same deal

[W. C. Stump]

THE NEW BREED

Locating and acquiring an original war time original diamond badge is near impossible. Few documented example exist and many of the fakes come with fake documentation. Some of the newest diamonds badges are coming from England into the United States through Christopher Ailsby who "documents" many of the fakes in his books. He has supplie quite a number to the fake seller Roger F. Honts who sells them as original. Here is a prime example of the jeweler's art of fantasy diamond badges compliments of Roger F. Honts and Christopher Ailsby.

[W. C. Stump]

ONE MORE ENGLISH FAKE

Here is another of the Honts/Ailsby fakes.

[W. C. Stump]

A HONTS FAKE U-BOAT WITH DIAMONDS

Here is an example of what Roger F. Honts is selling as original.

[W. C. Stump]

REVERSE

The reverse of the fake U-Boat in Diamonds.

[stogieman]

Interesting..........

............. Unlike, Bill, I cannot specify the origin of the badges I saw. I can however state unequivocally, that the badges came from England. Hmmmmm. Perhaps the same original source?? Quality and finish of the 2 I photographed look very close to the ones Bill has posted.

[W. C. Stump]

GERMAN JOKE

Here is a German made joke.

[W. C. Stump]

REVERSE

Reverse.

[Mike Coleman]

I wish to thank all those who have taken the time and effort to reply to my inquiry with useful and honest opinion and information.

This is the first time I have entered anything on this site and am new to it. I would like to commend the organizers of this web site. As I scroll down the side bars I recognize names of individuals known for their superior collections, funds of knowledge and integrity in the collecting community who I have never had the good fortune to meet. To be able to have a resource like this available to tap into means a lot to those of us who are relative neophytes struggling along in this field. Again, thanks to all. Mike C.

[Michel]

Mike,

If you want to see a good U-boot KA with diamonds, go to see the Lehmann-Willenbrock on the Gordon's site :

http://www.btinternet.com/~gordonwil...egsmarine2.htm

Regards

Michel

[W. C. Stump]

ORIGINAL U-BOAT BADGE WITH DIAMONDS

I hereby present an original U-Boat with Diamonds.