Minesweeper Badge - tombak - opinions?

[Frozzer]

Hi, i have bought the minesweeper badge, i bought it from a person, who said that he found it on battleground, and he is absolutely shure that is an original award. the award is made in tombak, unfortunetly it was cleaned from patina, but near hook and in the waves is still a sand. the award was found without a pin, and the pin is replaced from the infanteie sturmabzeichen award

please opinion, its original?

[Philippe DB]

Hi Frozzer,


How should I say it, I guess "not for my collection" would describe my feelings the best.

To begin with I can't match this Minesweeper to anything I know. Ok since I'm willing to accept that I haven't seen everything ever made that's not much of an argument, I know.

However I don't like the material this badge seems to be made of. How is it possible that a badge that was ground dug and developed this kind of patina shows no traces what so ever of finish. What we are looking at IMO is the color of the base metal and as far as I'm aware of no KM badge was ever produced without a finish. Also the aging somehow looks overdone and artificial. And finaly what is a complete zinc set-up doing on a buntmetall badge

Taking in to account all the above I would pass on it.

KR
Philippe

PS, on my PC only 30% of you first pic is visible, the rest won't load.

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Philippe,

He mentioned the setup was taken from a zinc IAB. I think it could very well be a ground dug and cleaned Tombak badge. But the catchplate remains a mystery. Hard to be 100% about this badge.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Philippe,

He mentioned the setup was taken from a zinc IAB. I think it could very well be a ground dug and cleaned Tombak badge. But the catchplate remains a mystery. Hard to be 100% about this badge.

Dear Frank

I understood that only the pin was taken from an IAB so where did the wrap arround hinge come from?

But like I wrote above I haven't seen anything like this so I have only my gut feeling and logical thinking to go on.

KR
Philippe

[münster]

You 2 are the Badge experts, but the ground over in the east must preserve badges much better then here in the west, because any medal i have yanked from the ground here does not even come close to this or any of these battlefield finds over there.

[Frozzer]

the answer is simple. awards made in iron digged from the ground are in very poor condition, but award made in tombak, are in exelent condition. almost new.
they are only in patina.

from my award patina was removed in almost 40%. but in 60% award has got patina. a lot of in center of the reverse, and on averse in deep places of waves and oaks
but before cleaning this award had patina in 100%,

about pics...i cant post pics on this forum, maybe someone want to post my pics of this award? or maybe someone know a server where i can post pics and link it here?

[Philippe DB]

Hi Frozzer

This is what I would expect a ground dug buntmetall(tombak) badge to look like. The tombak turns dark chocolate brown. You could polish this badge forever it will never shine again. The only way you would achieve that is maybe by sandblasting it or by polishing it very agressively but that for sure would take away most of the detailing.


KR
Philippe

[Frozzer]

yes, i know what you want to say, but belive me, there is some metod to clean patina from tombak

for example photo, from left, award before cleaning, and from right, award afther cleaning.

but I NEVER CLEAN awards from patina.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Frozzer,


I think you have to make a distinction between patina, which in fact is nothing more then dirt of somekind forming a layer over the badge and the chemical reaction that turns tombak in to the color you see on the grounddug early Juncker. Trust me that is permanent and the same type of discoloration of tombak can sometimes be seen on tombak badges that are otherwise in perfect condition.

I show you one more example. This is a tombak PAB in very good condition with the exception of the discoloration on the eagle and some parts of the right track. I don't know with what the tombak reacted but this also is permanent. No way you can get this of without damaging the metal.

KR
Philippe

[Frozzer]

ok, maybe back to subject.
you think that my award is original or fake ?

[Frank Heukemes]

As we said, hard to be 100% either way, especially with all the cleaning and adding elements from other badges. To be honest, whatever it is, it will always be an undesirable badge for a collection.

[mrg]

Hi Frozzer, must say the colouration in this minesweeper looks very suspect, although i agree with you the ground dug from east to west do differ depending on region. The east being more peat and bog and less harsher soil (not as many fertilizers destroying the soil as in the west). However the reverse set up is not what you would expect from a Tombak award. It a hard call but not one for me i'm sorry to say.

[Frozzer]

thanks for reply. but im very happy for having this award in collection, in my collection there is a 90% awards wich cames from battlefield, and this one is nice example for my collection. collecting awards in mint conditions is not for my pocket .

in my opinion award isnt fake, pin is original, not from this type of award, but it cames from ww2 too

one more thanks for reply