French and Norwegian shipyard pins

[NOR_collector]

Hi.

I would really like your opinions on these two shipyard pins.
IMO they looks alright, but I have not handle these that much and especially not the Norwegian one since that is really rare to find.
Not the best pictures, but it's all I have at the moment.

Regards,
André

[NOR_collector]

The French pin

[NOR_collector]

The Norwegian pin

[Norm F]

Hi André,

I'm not a big fan of that Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen; it's the same type as Martin's posted here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...54#post5820354 although yours doesn't use a mounting plate for the pin. I can't be sure about it, but it's not one of the two types with some provenance, and it looks cast to me.

That Nordwerft Leistungsabzeichen is intriguing though. They're so rare it's hard to do any definitive study, but that one looks like an excellent match to the one posted by Rob Hudspith here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=141592
Thanks for posting.

Best regards,
---Norm

[NOR_collector]

The Nordwerft Leistungsabzeichen should be ok. It was found in Northern Norway many years ago so I think that one is a good one.

The Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen came from jamie cross, 15 years ago. I'm not sure if it is original or not. The pictures I got from the owner is not so good as you can see. Hard to see any details. It does looks like the one That Martin had and I think there maybe has been a backplate there, but I think the whole pin might have fallen off at one point and someone has repiared it. I will try to get some better pictures of the badge.

Regards,
André

[Norm F]

The Nordwerft Leistungsabzeichen should be ok. It was found in Northern Norway many years ago so I think that one is a good one.

[GAMS1]

IMO both originals !
I like the making of both of them ...
Nick

[Simon O.]

The design of the bird has always intrigued me as it's so unusual. I think it's supposed to be or is inspired by the Cormorant, a sea bird often seen resting with its wings spread out in that fashion around the Norwegian coast.

[NOR_collector]

Here is another picture of the Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen.

Does any of you have any books written by Gorden Williamson (not the torpedo los book because he uses another badge in that one) or Jamie Cross? This badge should be in 2 - 3 books written them.
Also, the owner says that it has been discussed here on WAF before and on GCA (given thumbs up on both forum), but I don't have any links to any of those posts, but I will try to find them.
The owner says that this badge is one of three badges that was owned by Gordon and he bought this one back in the year 2000 from Jamie.

I think it looks like this acceptet tombak type which I have marked with a green circle.

Regards,
André

[NOR_collector]

If you look at the swastika. One of the arms in the swastika starts out real thick and then narrows down just like the accepted tombak type.
The left one on the picture is the badge in question, the right one is the acceptet tombak type. I don't see that on the replica or any of the other accepted badges.

[Norm F]

Hi André,

Well, I can only repeat that the Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen the you've shown is the same type as Martin's (labelled here as "Type B"), has no provenance and is different from the "Type A" with provenance. Aside from the different pins, two easy features to spot on the obverse are the different pattern of the eagle's chest and the defined inner margin of the cogwheel on the "Type A".

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Again the comparison between Type A (provenance) and Type B (no provenance). Different eagle chest feathers, better detail in the cogwheel and submarine in the Type A, and concave rough patch in the reverse of the Type B.

Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility that the Type B is also an original variant that simply remains unproven, but personally I just don't like the relative lack of detail, the surface texture of the reverse and the knurled pin compared with the usual type with the plain pin.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

None of that detracts from your Nordwerft Leistungsabzeichen which I think is a great find. And notice that it has a very similar pin to the original Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen.

Best regards,
---Norm

[NOR_collector]

I bought the Nordwerft Leistungsabzeichen since IMO that is 100% original and because you guys gives it thumbs up.

When it comes to the Westwerft Leistungsabzeichen, I have desided to wait untill I find one that match a known original.

Thank you Norm F for a nice and good discussion. I really appreciate all your help.

Regards,
André

[Norm F]

Congratulations, good choice. A rare pin -- only the second one to be posted on WAF over the years.

Best regards,
---Norm