Einsatzgruppen dogtag original?

[stephen grund]

I am interested in this dogtag, it's a little pricey, 210 euros but if it's real I think it's worth it. Please let me know what you think.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

fantasy, laser engraved.

See You

Vince

[Sturmmann]

IMO original, definately not a fantasy.
Here is one which was dug out from South-Estonia about 8 years ago.

[stephen grund]

Would anybody else out there with knowledge about this care to comment. So far it's 50/50.

[JoeW]

I don't believe either is legitimate. Neither discs properly document a definite unit or a general term of a unit. Moreover, the Einsatzgruppen were composite forces made up of units from other branches of service. I am always open to correction. Perhaps there is some other source documentation establishing the issuance of such Erkennungsmarken?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

it seemed that this type of EKM is original, BUT the engraving of this one is too large imo.
Could it be a laser engraved copy, like we saw during HH 71 ?
What do you think ?

It may have been used for the local Sipo units in Yougoslavia.
Those are still "cleansing" units.
So we can trace two from Yougoslavia, and one from South-Estonia.

I suspect that those were used by "locals" in the Sipo units.

Previous topics about this subject :

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=394790
2009 : similar design, number "2793" (?)
EKM said to be found in lake near Bled (Slovenia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bled

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=229666
2007 (images gone)
Again a lot of infos courtesy of Larry deZeng i'm reposting here :

In wartime Yugoslavia, the 10 or 12 Einsatzkdos.d.Sipo that were in the country at one time or another between 1941 and 1945 identified, seized, interrogated and liquidated political enemies of the Reich and Jews. A typical EKdo.d.Sipo in wartime Yugoslavia numbered between 10 and 20 officers and men. Here is the layout for the Einsatzkommandos just in the NDH (Independent State of Croatia):

1.2 Befehlshaber der Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienst Agram (FpN: 47942 D)

SS-Obersturmbannführer Günther Herrmann (Mar 43 - May 45)

In addition to being the BdS on the staff of the Polizei-Beauftragter des RF-SS Kroatien (SS-Gruppenführer Kammerhofer), the BdS was at the same time the Einsatzgruppe E des Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienst. Each of the Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei (KdS) on the staff of the 5 SS-Polizeigebietsführer listed below was at the same time Kommandeur of an Einsatzkommando indicated in parentheses. The HQ and Stab (staff) of the BdS was located in Esseg (Osijek) until the end of July 1943, when it transferred to Zagreb. It remained there until May 1945. The BdS reported directly to Kammerhofer and was responsible for security police and intelligence tasks throughout Croatia, advising and training the Croatian Ustasha security police (RAVSIGUR and UNS), seizing hostages, arresting, investigating and interrogating suspects and carrying out executions.

KdS Banja Luka (Einsatzkommando 1) (FpN: 57203 C) - disbanded Feb 45
KdS Sarajevo (Einsatzkommando 2) (FpN: 59935 C)
KdS Esseg (Osijek) (Einsatzkommando 3) (FpN: 56028 C)
KdS Knin (Einsatzkommando 4) (FpN: 56585 C)
KdS Agram (Zagreb) (Einsatzkommando 5) (FpN: 58639 C)

There was also an Einsatzkdo.d.Sipo in Beograd, Ljubljana and Triest.

If you want to learn more, there are books in your library (in Slovenski, Hrvatski and Srbski) that will give you the information.

See You

Vince

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

in my opinion, this one is fake, and is copied from the "20114" posted in 2007 on the WAF.

Check the pictures.

Also the numbering is clearly different from the two other copies, one found in Estonia, and one in Slovenia... Check the "2" that is identical on the two.

"2793" found in the lake near Bled, Slovenia



"20114" found in the South of Estonia



"14309", location unknown



See You

Vince

[stephen grund]

Thanks guys for the replies, I was hoping this was the real deal but the more I look at the lettering, it does look different. It looks wider than the other examples shown.