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    #1

    RDK badge in dark blue by A.K


    Seeing as the WAF is graced at the moment by members who have the ability to view small images and see immediately whether the items were "correctly produced, and conform to authentic badges" I thought it about time to resurrect this old issue The dark blue RDK badge marked AK.

    There have been a few threads on these here, all go the same way in the end.
    This thread, explains, why the dark blue badges are not genuine.
    The "evidence" is the following:

    • The only noticable difference that jumps out at me is all the fonts/graphics seem to be quite a bit thinner on the blue than the black.
    • The main telltale sign of fake RDK badges is poorly defined or outline eye of the large eagle. It should be a solid triangle.
    • As Robert mentioned, it has always been said that this badge was produce by Alois Klammer of Innsbruck.


    So a direct quote from J.R Cones, terribly wrong 1980`s book is parroted, word-for-word. It mentions the maker as Alfred Knobloch, (..it has always been said that it was Alois Klammer? - point 2) and it mentions the "tell-tale" sign to look for, the "main telltale sign of fake RDK badges is poorly defined or outline eye of the large eagle."

    An image of this direct quote is then pictured - a picture of the page from his book.

    Then, the following is posted:
    Well thats pretty conclusive


    So we have a quote from a troll book - J.R Cone - a book in which many of the badges shown are fantasy or fakes, accompanied by terribly incorrect facts and invented information. And we have "the graphics seem to be bit thinner."

    So i ask, is this "conclusive evidence"? Is this really what collectors are happy with, as EVIDENCE? A picking and choosing of troll facts, from troll books, that we all KNOW, are useless troll books.

    Is there not a better way, to be 100% sure, that it is a fake or not? Anyone have any, more modern, information?
    Tags: None
    #2
    Point one - The two letters A.K

    Originally posted by Jo Rivett View Post
    • As Robert mentioned, it has always been said that this badge was produce by Alois Klammer of Innsbruck.
    So the makers details, or two letters - AK -, are supposed to be "evidence"?
    Cone, the troll everyone is quoting here, claims it was for a maker called Alfred Knobloch, but then we have another name, Alois Klammer, and because this name - Klammer - has never been seen before abbreviated in this manner, ON SHOOTING BADGES - thats evidence? thats a point at all?

    So the "selecting" of troll facts are not even selected in their entirety, but only potions therefor used as "fact", as "evidence"

    Cone was "wrong" about the maker, but right about everything else?

    But what is, everything else?

    Comment

      #3
      The "everything else"

      Well the everything else, can only be this, the "main telltale..:

      The main telltale sign of fake RDK badges is poorly defined or outline eye of the large eagle. It should be a solid triangle.
      The part of Cone`s book claim that is correct, or not? The name, Knobloch doesn't sit well with collectors, as Cone claimed, so it must be the "Eye" part of his claim that is true. Must be true, otherwise why it is still being parroted, word for word?

      WHY WOULD IT BE TRUE? Observations of many other RDK badges show:
      A Nike-shaped eye with no eyeball, an arrow-shaped eye with an eyeball, and without, as well as period documents and letterheads showing a round eye without eyeball, and with.



      So why would it be true? How could, it be true? These badges have been researched before? really... Well it would seem that many dealers don`t agree, hence 20 of these found for sale by me, (during a 5 minute web search) as genuine. There will be many more

      Here is a single zoom enlargement of the eye, taken from the blue badge shown in post one. Don`t forget to read the "evidence" the main Telltale signs of the fake RDK badges before, or while you are looking at the image.

      The main telltale sign of fake RDK badges is poorly defined or outline eye of the large eagle. It should be a solid triangle.
      I cant really understand what the parroted quote above actually means, as it is gibberish - poorly defined, or outline eye of the large eagle?

      Really? This, is poorly defined eye? What part of this eye, is poorly defined? What part of this eye, the quote: Telltale signs, tell us that it is fake? Tell us that this, is the "evidence"?

      Does this image not show you, the direct opposite - of "poorly defined"?

      Comment

        #4

        Surely, it would be beneficial to both dealer and collector, to have "a bit more" in 2015 than edited troll facts. Something that they could really use, instead of going around chanting "the eye, the eye, the poorly defined eye is the clue."

        If we all know and accept, that there were many makers of the same item, with different dies, slightly different sizes as well as slightly different designs, (dont forget the many sub-contractors also) then why are we even going down the troll-Cone route? Why would we use something like this as "evidence" - because we all know, it is just not true!

        A much better route to chose, is the "detailed look". A normal quick comparison if you will, but using imagery that actually shows us what we are "talking about" and exactly how the item was made.

        So lets NOT consider the eye - the image above was simply to show the eye - lets NOT consider the letters AK and lets not even look at the "letters RDK , that seem to be thinner" Lets NOT look at the points which those before me have proclaimed "evidence", and lets look at the important part. The Boris-the-animal, part!

        Comment

          #5
          These late post-war fakes, are not the fakes you need to worry about. This blue enameled badge marked marked AK (there are other colors too with this mark(s) is not a badge that could fool you - providing you take a proper, detailed look.

          The only badges you need to fear, are those made with original dies/tooling, badges that were made by Boris and his robot-cutter, are the easiest fakes to spot.

          What follows are a few single zoom micro images of the same section taken from both blue and red badge featured above. (Red by Robinsons, blue by AK)

          After comparing one to the other, you will surely now get a better idea of the noticeable differences between what you really want to see on a genuine badge looked at in this manner, produced by humans, and a fake, produced by Boris and his robot-cutter. Gefühllos.

          There are many other observations to be made, but right now, all i want to draw your attention to, is the computer-cut obverse die. If you can see the differences, you are on your way to sorting this mess out. If you cant, then you obviously understand, but cant afford to, so will say you dont, and support that with trolling and insults.

          We dont need trolls, JR Cone or anyone else. Just a closer look, and common sense.
          .................................................. ............










          Last but not least, a look from the side at the outer edges of both red and blue.




          And the blue badge marked AK

          Comment

            #6
            Be sure now, the next time you have someone jump on your forum thread and claim "Both items were correctly produced, and are consistent with what we find on period German produced items" that you retort with:

            "Really? can you point me to the detailed imagery that your claim is based on?"

            Be sure, to bookmark this thread and redirect them here, to what simple, detailed imagery looks like.

            Simple, detailed imagery that proves, whether an item was produced in the "correct manner"

            Thats it, and it`s enough!

            Comment

              #7
              Hi Jo,

              Many thanks for this topic and research. Finally we have the answers we wanted for so long. The (micro) surface pictures really tell it all. I've been suspiscious of these for years and as you know very hesistant to buy, so glad i didn't!

              Now to examine the others "variations". I realise it's an expensive proces to investigate these badges, as they are not cheap to buy to examine them (and as now find out they are fake). Much appreciated!

              Im too tired to check my archived pictures of these to check for makers, but do you have any idea if the badge in this colour did exist from other makers for real?

              best regards,
              Gaston

              Comment

                #8
                Gaston, thats what the closer look is all about, to just be sure of what we are seeing. So if need be, we can take those "sureties" further in debate, and know that the debate is being built, based, on factual evidence, that it what it is. No magic from the 70`s included, no reputations, and no need for insults either.

                Comment

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