I would ask for an opinion on a Naval High Seas Fleet Badge 1941

[gfkgdk]

I would ask for an opinion on a Naval High Seas Fleet Badge 1941. Marked FEC. ADOLF BOCK over AUSF. SCHWERIN BERLIN.

[Nordmark]

Hello,


with todays high end copies, your pictures are imo not good enough to give a definite answer. I would slightly lean towards original, but...


Regards,


Daniel

[gfkgdk]

Try these

Hello,


with todays high end copies, your pictures are imo not good enough to give a definite answer. I would slightly lean towards original, but...


Regards,


Daniel

I will try two more.
George

[JAndrew]

George,
This badge has some features that make me wonder if it is a cast piece. The obverse does not look bad but there are a few areas where edges don't look as sharp as I would like. I don't like the colors but I attribute that to photographic technique.

Where I have the greatest concern is when I see the reverse. I can't tell if there are color irregularities in the finish or if there are actually uneven areas in the metal. I note this especially on the left side of the wreath. Also, is that solder spill from the catch up onto the lettering? I have never seen that on a Schwerin badge if it is.

I know photos are not easy for you to get but some edge photos would be good to look for shear marks and file marks. It would be useful to have some pin up pics, side views of the catch and hinge and tangential shot of the reverse.

Right now I tend towards a thumbs down vote and would have to be convinced this is a good badge.
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Hello,

with todays high end copies, your pictures are imo not good enough to give a definite answer. I would slightly lean towards original, but...

Regards,

Daniel

I agree completely with Daniel's comments. Likewise, I tend towards original but the photo quality limits the final assessment. There seems to be discordance between the gouges on the reverse and wear on the ship on the one hand and the bright pristine gilding on the other. Also the catch colour and excessive solder are odd features. Possibly a worn badge with replaced catch and re-gilded? Hopefully more photos (as mentioned by JAndrew) can help clear this up.

Best regards,
---Norm

[JAndrew]

I circled some of the areas on the reverse that concerned me. These don't look like gauges from use but casting defects to me. Also, some of these seem to have existed before the current gold finish was applied - whether that is original or refinished.
JAndrew

[gfkgdk]

defects

I circled some of the areas on the reverse that concerned me. These don't look like gauges from use but casting defects to me. Also, some of these seem to have existed before the current gold finish was applied - whether that is original or refinished.
JAndrew

The weather was overcast yesterday I hope these pictures will help but I am not sure.
George

[gfkgdk]

without flash

I agree completely with Daniel's comments. Likewise, I tend towards original but the photo quality limits the final assessment. There seems to be discordance between the gouges on the reverse and wear on the ship on the one hand and the bright pristine gilding on the other. Also the catch colour and excessive solder are odd features. Possibly a worn badge with replaced catch and re-gilded? Hopefully more photos (as mentioned by JAndrew) can help clear this up.

Best regards,
---Norm

I took these without flash.
George

[gfkgdk]

edge

George,
This badge has some features that make me wonder if it is a cast piece. The obverse does not look bad but there are a few areas where edges don't look as sharp as I would like. I don't like the colors but I attribute that to photographic technique.

Where I have the greatest concern is when I see the reverse. I can't tell if there are color irregularities in the finish or if there are actually uneven areas in the metal. I note this especially on the left side of the wreath. Also, is that solder spill from the catch up onto the lettering? I have never seen that on a Schwerin badge if it is.

I know photos are not easy for you to get but some edge photos would be good to look for shear marks and file marks. It would be useful to have some pin up pics, side views of the catch and hinge and tangential shot of the reverse.

Right now I tend towards a thumbs down vote and would have to be convinced this is a good badge.
JAndrew

The edge pictures.
George

[Norm F]

Although assessment is still limited due to the poor quality photos (no offense meant, George) I suspect this badge is a fine worn original that has been hammered (or otherwise manhandled) to increase its vaulting resulting in the dings to the eagle and to the reverse. It has the waffle-head hinge pin and flat-based catch seen on later Tombak production. My previous concerns about the finish could just be the photo quality.

If one were actually buying the badge one would need to examine it in hand, but I'm encouraged by the additional pics.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

I agree, it is original later tombak Schwerin HSF but I still have concerns about the finish based on these images.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

I agree, it is original later tombak Schwerin HSF but I still have concerns about the finish based on these images.
Cheers,
Hubert

Yes, could very well be refinished...need better camera or in-hand inspection.

[JAndrew]

George,
Thank you for the new photos. Having looked at them I do feel better about this badge and I agree that this could very well be one that had a hard life and may have had the gold finish redone at some point. The side view makes it look pretty flat so I am not sure about an attempt to increase the vaulted look - if there was it sure did not seem to work very well - so we may never know why the back looks so beat up. I would agree that the catch may have been replaced/repaired at some point as well.
JAndrew

[JAndrew]

One last thought as I looked at the photos again. Looking at the front and noting the inside edge of the wreath on the left, the outside edge on the right and the right side of the bridge windows, I wonder if a die slipped a bit on the strike?
JAndrew