SS Pins, Fake?

[Greg Kubasek]

Howdy,

Now that I have been reading these forums and doing my homework on starting collecting Third Reich memorabilia I am sure that these pins are fake/fantasy.

Let me know what you think but I'm sure I already know the answer.

The sad thing I guess is these are what started my interest in collecting this year.

I saw these at a Militaria store that I drove by and caught my eye. These were sitting in the showcase for $70CDN and I hummed and hawed about buying them. When I asked the dealer told me that these were for contibuting members of the SS and were indeed authentic. I left the store but my sister (who was with me at the time) went back the next day to buy them for me.

Anyhow.. please see the pictures below:

[Greg Kubasek]

Front

[Greg Kubasek]

Back

[Greg Kubasek]

Maker Mark

Hello Greg,

Yes, you do know the answer. These are fantasy items, the design actually looks closer to an SS member's stickpin than an FM (honorary member) stickpin. (I think the originals were only made in stickpin format though, not in pinback).

If you do a search on previous "SS stickpin" threads, I am sure you will see some originals.

Don't let it get you down - it's part of collecting this stuff, everybody gets burned once in a while. You have a big advantage being a member of this forum, I wish it would have been around when I started!

Good hunting,

Fred

[Greg Kubasek]

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

The sad thing is this is from a supposed "reputable" dealer here in Calgary, I also made a post about an EK2 I bought and it seems like it is heading in much the same direction as this, of which I got from yet another "reputable" dealer here.

I think that is what frusterates me.. I can understand purchasing fakes from auctions, flea markets, etc etc but when people advertise themselves as experts it is a downer.

Thats why these forums are great, it will save me money in the long run.

[James Noble]

Well I guess you can see just how reputable a dealer he by returning them for a refund. Good luck.

[Don Scowen]

Howdy,

Now that I have been reading these forums and doing my homework on starting collecting Third Reich memorabilia I am sure that these pins are fake/fantasy.

Let me know what you think but I'm sure I already know the answer.

The sad thing I guess is these are what started my interest in collecting this year.

I saw these at a Militaria store that I drove by and caught my eye. These were sitting in the showcase for $70CDN and I hummed and hawed about buying them. When I asked the dealer told me that these were for contibuting members of the SS and were indeed authentic. I left the store but my sister (who was with me at the time) went back the next day to buy them for me.

Anyhow.. please see the pictures below:

A point to check for is the RZM mark on the back. None of the SS pins (SS members or SS/FM) were ever marked with the RZM.

Cheers
Don

[Mike Pinkus]

i would definately question his expert claims as these are some very bogus and very apparent fake items....
fake patina on back...bad hardware.....bad enamel.....etc. etc.
mike
http://enamelsofwar.homestead.com

[Volkbert]

Great site Mike!!! If you are interested in some extra photos for your site, I have a few enamel NSB pins. I can send you some pictures.

[Greg Kubasek]

Thanks guys! I'm going to go back to this guy and tell him that he sold me fantasy items. Unfortunatley like the other two dealers in town here they have signage stating "ALL SALES FINAL" I guess that should tip me off right away.


Since two out of the three shops have duped me (I have not bought anything from the third yet) I think I should stick to buying from online guys like Detlev or the Estand here.

[sjl]

You don't need one more person telling you they are fake, but I thought I'd offer a few pointers about these and similar badges.

If you see an oval pin plate (long and thin), best to stay away. Most fake enamel pins have this kind of attachment. Genuine ones are almost always round or an elongated hexagon.

The markings on the back - as Don pointed out - are wrong. SS metal stuff was rarely RZM'ed (except some hat devices, buckles and daggers), and none of their enamel was.

Common fake RZM numbers for these and the various other common fake "Deutchland Erwache" and "Adolf Hitler" -type enamel badges are M1/4 and M1/129. Stay away from these unless you really know what you're doing.

The "RZM Code" your pins show are interesting. There was no "H" code, so "H9" is a complete fantasy. This is the first time I've seen it. There was "M" for metal and "L" for leather, but no "H".

Plus RZM codes were stated like this "M1/9" and not just "M9". The number before the stroke (/) tells you what kind of metal object it is, and the number after is the manufacturer's licence number.

Here is a list of the RZM M-numbers and what they stand for:

M1 Badges and insignia “

Metallabzeichen"

M2 Sub-contractors “Hilfsbetriebe”

M3 Symbols “

Symbole”

M4 Belt buckles “

Koppelschloss”

M5 Uniform fittings “

Uniformeffekten”

M6 Aluminum products “Aluminiumwaren”

M7 Daggers “Dienstdolch u.Fahrtenmesser”

M8 Metal accessories“Metallzubehörteile”

M9 Meeting badges “Fest- u. Tagesabzeichen”

M10 Musical instruments “Musikinstrumenten”

M11 NSDAP Service Awards “NSDAP Dienstauszeichnungen”

M12 Miniature NSDAP Service Awards “

NSDAP Dienstauszeichnungen in Miniatur”

Finally, the RZM logo is a common fake. The "M" is called a "lazy" or "canted" M, meaning it looks like two pup tents (or upsidedown Vs) side by side. The outside legs of the M in the logo should be straight up and down in genuine examples.

Sorry to be so long - hope it helps.

[Greg Kubasek]

Thank you for the info on RZM numbers. I am keeping this to add to all me points of reference. I appreciate the effort you went through to type that out.

Everyone on these forums have been so kind and helpful to me and I cannot express how refreshing it is and how much it means to me.

Thanks!

[sjl]

Hi Greg,

You're not a real collector unless you have a drawer full of mistakes. I know I do, and I bet everyone else on the Forum does too.

It's always best if you can get you cash back, but don't feel too bad - I just saw on an auction site someone pay 65,000 Euro ($80,000 CAN) for what's certainly a fake "Hitler's Golden Party Badge". Ouch! (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=66370&page=2)

Happy collecting.

[Duzig]

Hello all,
According to J.R. Cone's book One People One Reich on enamelled badges it is stated that the canted leg rzm does not necessarily mean it's a bogus piece,just that it was produced outside of germany proper. Is Cone wrong on this or what? Thanks for your replies.
Duzig