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**Albert** · 10-08-2004, 10:31 AM

Close up of the eagle:

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Unknown PABbr eagle.JPG (18.0 KB, 136 views)

**Philippe DB** · 10-08-2004, 11:23 AM

Dear Albert,

Thanks for posting this PAB. Only looking at the obverse detailing there is absolutely nothing wrong with this badge and it's easy to conclude that they are ok.

However the problem I have with this PAB is situated at the reverse. Let me explain;

I think we all would agree that this is a so-called Zimmermann. i'm very familar with these badges and really studied them in depth because it was one of the first PAB's that allowed me to clearly follow the production evolution of a common award from 1940 untill the end of the war.

Now here is the problem I have with the badge, the set-up of your example just doesn't fit in to that picture. I'm always open to new set-up variant's but if there was ever one badge that I felt comfortable with in the sense that I was able to completely identify the set-up evolution than it was this Zimmmermann PAB.

Only very recently I saw pics of an identical badge (cfr. below) and really didn't know where to put it in my OK or in my fake files. Finally and untill I would have the possibility to handle one I decided to put it in the fake files.

I decided to do so not only because I can't place it in the evolution but also because I know this design is being faked to perfection where the obverse is concerned.

I always wondered where the famous Floch fakes of IAB's, PAB's and GAB's hide out. Much discussed and seen by many people (on shows) but never documented. Altough at this moment I can't proof it this badge IMO could be a candidate.

I don't know if your example comes with a history that for sure could be helpfull. Untill I have the opportunity to handle these badges and examine them in detail I'm not able to make up mind. However taken it to account the many known original variants of the Zimmermann PAB I don't think it's worth the risk investing in this badge.

Here is the only other example have on file.

KR
Philippe

Attached Files

Zimmermann strange set-up o.jpg (42.5 KB, 131 views)

**Philippe DB** · 10-08-2004, 11:24 AM

reverse

Attached Files

Zimmermann strange set-up r.jpg (36.0 KB, 131 views)

**Chet Sowersby** · 10-08-2004, 11:43 AM

Philippe,
It may be the difference in the pictures but Albert's badge shows better detail with more wear than the one you show. Also the hinges are different.

Chet

**Philippe DB** · 10-08-2004, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Chet Sowersby

Philippe,
It may be the difference in the pictures but Albert's badge shows better detail with more wear than the one you show. Also the hinges are different.

Chet

Hi Chet,

Difficult to tell from the pics I have. I think the detailling really is the same, Albert badge is photographed with much better light and on a zink bronze badge the wear will always be better visible.

The hinge is a difficult one, almost impossible to see on the pic I posted, but agree that it could have a broader base. Anyway the round based round wire catch is the same and on the many many dozens of these badge I have seen and handled did I ever encounter this typ of catch or hinge.

Anyway like I wrote above I really don't know what to think of them and thus would rather like to be cautious.

KR
Philippe

**Albert** · 10-08-2004, 12:12 PM

Hi guys!

Thanks! Unfortunately, there is no provenance. So, it's better to be carefull and leave it allone...

Best,
Albert

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Unmarked bronze PAB

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