Frontreif and Westwerftabzeichen U-boat awards

[chrislentzy]

Below is a link to an album containing photos of the Frontreif and Westwerftabzeichen U-boat awards. I did not see them anywhere in the Kriegsmarine forum so I hope you find them interesting.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hp?albumid=791

[chrislentzy]

I'm hoping this works here are the images

[JAndrew]

Chris,
Thank you for posting these images. The left badge may be a repro but maybe others can say for sure. These are interesting and, IMO, under appreciated badges.
Regards,
JAndrew

[chrislentzy]

Both these two models of the Westweftabzeichen are well documented. The size of each is different, one is made of Buntmetall, the other Feinzink.

[Norm F]

Both these two models of the Westweftabzeichen are well documented. The size of each is different, one is made of Buntmetall, the other Feinzink.

Hi Chris,

Could you please post the evidence behind these examples? As you can tell this is a gap in the forum resources and the more collectors know about them, the better.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

For reference, here's a reproduction for sale on the net for 35 Euro.
http://www.muenzauktion.com/futter/item.php5?id=1939

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

There was a discussion a couple of years ago in which Martin W. and Thomas B. both posted examples of what was considered an original Westwerft-Leistungsabzeichen (Martin W.'s file images attached).

Apparently a gentleman named Englebert Jahn from Linz, Austria produced and sold brass copies of this pin in the 70's and 80's.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's an example like the one posted by chrislentzy at the top of the thread. This one and Chris' show subtle but distinct differences from the generally accepted type in post 7. I'm by no means expert in these awards but I'm suspicious of this type as possibly being the Austrian copies referred to earlier.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Regarding the zinc Frontreif badge, from past discussions it doesn't sound like there are many takers, usually considered fakes out of Arizona. See Bob's comment here:

Frontreif badge

Even if the anecdote of unofficial badges from pre-war during U-Boat testing were true, I wouldn't have expected them to be made of zinc in that time period?

Best regards,
---Norm

[chrislentzy]

Hi Norm,
I bought the bulk of my collection before the days of the internet. In those dark days collectors referenced books by experts and magazine articles.
I do not believe my 1st model of the Westwerftabzeichen to be a repro.
There is a good image of the award with dimensions in "Auszeichnungen Des Deutschen Reiches" by Kleitmann.
Another great reference was in an article in the French "Militaria" magazine". I only kept the Kriegsmarine related articles so I do not have an issue number or date. The article was "Les Decorations Pour Les Ouvriers Des Chantiers De L'Ouest De La Kriegsmarine" by Bertrand Malvaux. The article shows various examples of the different models and gives a table of sizes.
Hoegel in "Embleme Malings der deutschen U-boote" does refer to the Frontreif emblem. At handover the front of the U-boats' conning towers had the Frontreif emblem stencilled on it. This was made into an unoffical non-wearable award.
I await your comments...

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,
I bought the bulk of my collection before the days of the internet. In those dark days collectors referenced books by experts and magazine articles.

Hi Chris,

Well, the brass metal copies of the Westwerft-Leistungsabzeichen were said to date from the early 1970's and the dealer died in the late 1980's, so certainly a pre-internet business venture.

Like I say, I can't claim any special knowledge or long study of these awards but I can present of synthesis of current information available from forum threads. Thomas Bendixen has been studying these for a longer time and perhaps can comment.

Here are three examples of what is generally accepted as the correct Tombak version, the upper left example of which was originally posted with claimed provenance and the recipient's Soldbuch. I've highlighted shared surface characteristics on the reverse and the cutout under the left wing (on the reverse) which differ from yours.

[Norm F]

Here now are two examples of the zinc version (quite a different design). Once again the left version has claimed provenance and was part of a German vet grouping with the recipient's award document and Wehrpass.

[Norm F]

Here's a quick comparison highlighting the differences between the generally accepted type on the left and the type from the top of the thread (two examples on the right). You can see that the ones on the right have a flat smooth featureless reverse, a different cutout under the left wing and rounded corner on the left wing. Also the pin attachment is higher. Furthermore, the "original" on the left has a depressed inner border along the internal curvature on the upper right of the cogwheel, a feature commonly seen on wartime production badges which is absent from the examples on the right.
To me, the production seems more modern which is why I figured they were the product of Herr Jahn from Linz in the 1970s. I can't say for sure...just seems suspicious.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Hoegel in "Embleme Malings der deutschen U-boote" does refer to the Frontreif emblem. At handover the front of the U-boats' conning towers had the Frontreif emblem stencilled on it. This was made into an unoffical non-wearable award.
I await your comments...

Hi Chris,

The Frontreif is a much murkier situation.

My understanding from "Torpedo Los" and other postings is it's known to be a legitimate emblem, just as you say. What isn't known is whether it was ever actually made into a badge before or during the war. It could have been, but if so how do you distinguish it from the Arizona-made versions referred to by Bob Hritz? We need to at least see some decent images suggestive of wartime-compatible construction and preferably a bit of provenance. Nothing convincing has yet been posted.

Could you perhaps post some better views including a reverse view and closeups of the edges as well?

Best regards,
---Norm

[chrislentzy]

Hi Norm,
Are my jpegs too small, I thought you had to keep them to 600 x 450? How big can they be made?
To me the pin and clasp mechanism looked typically German on the Frontreif badge. To me this was a typical navy thing where the Frontreif badge was more a souvenir of the preparation for battle. I did know that is was not official (which again is typical navy) but you have you put doubt in my mind.
As I had my original receipt from 1994, I put the matter to Weitze of Hamburg whom I bought the badge from. They offer to refund me what I paid for the badge upon return of the badge.
In the matter of the Westerftabzeichen they were quite happy that this is a genuine one. It feels like all badges are fake until proven original here. How do I go about doing this?