WSS Signature Opinions?

[Brian R]

Hi Guys - I rarely have interest in WSS EK documents but have been offered these... the first is signed by Mühlenkamp as commander of Wiking. The date is technically after he was replaced as division commander but I've seen this plenty of times before. He could have been filing some final paperwork as he waited for Ullrich to take his new post.

The second document is signed by Fegelein as Kav. Commander. The division was fighting partisans behind Army Group Center at the time.

Please offer opinions.

Thank you,
Brian

[SJP]

Hi Brian, those are both fakes (IMHO). I have several Muhlenkamp signatures and that's not his. Also the units stamps on both documents are bad.
Cheers Steve

[Brian R]

Hi Steve. Thanks for your reply. From what I can see, the units and units stamps are correct - and the FP number on the first one jives with 5. SS Panzer Division.

Would you mind posting a couple of your Mühlenkamp examples?

Brian

[kuratorium]

Agree with Steve, both bad.

[Brian R]

Agree with Steve, both bad.

Can you offer reasons why? Anything specific?

Can anyone else offer feedback?

[Kuifje69]

I am also very curious why the Muhlenkamp autograph is bad.

Best regards,

Rene

[Jeremy]

fegelein

hmmm compared to other examples I have, Fegelein sig seems like possibly ok to me... having said that, I no little about the authenticity of the stamps which could be more conclusive...

[kuratorium]

IMHO autographs looks not bad at first view (especially Mühlenkamp´s), but stamps are bad.
And - sorry please I don´t want post the original stamp in better quality.

[Brian R]

I can see the slight difference in stamps (thanks for posting), but is this a definitive reason to say it is fake? Wouldn't a division have more than one stamp and that a slight variation between them is within reason?

[kuratorium]

I can see the slight difference in stamps (thanks for posting), but is this a definitive reason to say it is fake? Wouldn't a division have more than one stamp and that a slight variation between them is within reason?

Can you show us at least one original document with Fegelein´s signature which would be stamped with the same stamp as on yours document?

[kuratorium]

And please - can you show us a big details (close up) of these parts from both documents?
It´s possible to both documents were printed with exactly the same misprints (few letters with shadows) on the exactly same place? Maybe I´m wrong...

[Brian R]

Can you show us at least one original document with Fegelein´s signature which would be stamped with the same stamp as on yours document?

No. Waffen SS award documents are not my specialty and I don't have access to any Fegelein signed documents. The only ones I have ever really seen are the Fegelein signed Verleihungslisten that are around from time to time.

[Brian R]

And please - can you show us a big details (close up) of these parts from both documents?
It´s possible to both documents were printed with exactly the same misprints (few letters with shadows) on the exactly same place? Maybe I´m wrong...

Here they are as best as I can post them. They don't seem to be from the same printing even if they are from state printers. I see no red flags with this.

The images are the best I have as I don't actually have the documents in my possession.

[Brian R]

IMHO autographs looks not bad at first view (especially Mühlenkamp´s), but stamps are bad.
And - sorry please I don´t want post the original stamp in better quality.

I've been looking high and low for a Kav. Division stamp. I found one - but I think it is the one you posted. It's on an Eastern People's Award Document?


Also, here is the GAB citation that comes with the Fegelein document. It is signed by Gesele, although I don't have anything to compare it to. The units, dates and FP stamp all seem to match.

[SJP]

Brian, Here is one signature dating from 1/41, the other from 9/42. Almost identical to the document you posted. I still believe the document's fake because of the stamp which is the key . These documents have many of the same "tell's" as others posted here on the forum and from what I've seen at the Max & SOS ... all can be traced back to Europe (IMO)

If you don't own these I would avoid them.
_____________________________________________
Cheers Steve