LW Aluminium Assmann Breast Eagles (Summer Uniform)

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I've been following the "Aluminium vs Tombak vs Zinc" thread (ps what happened to nickel silver, ie altsilber/neusilber?) and there were some comments about Assmann marked aluminium LW breast eagles. This is of interest to me, so I am taking the liberty of starting the new thread as suggested.

I'll make more of a contribution tomorrow but I hope that in the meantime the two gentleman will take this opportunity to discuss this particular topic further.

Regards
Mike K

PS: I know this may not belong in this forum but if the moderators could leave it here for now so that those following the other thread can follow this one here too.

[Jos L C]

Again,is this a fake eagle ??

Jos.

[Jos L C]

front.

[Jos L C]

back.

[François SAEZ]

In my opinion YES, they are fake

[Jos L C]

Now it's getting interesting !
Why are these fake and here's the answer of a email I sent Detlev Niemann recently with these pictures attached.
I've saved the email and just copied his answer.

Good morning.
I have no problems with the pictured A-eagle
regards
detlev

Let's get started !

Jos.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

LUFTWAFFE ALUMINIUM BREAST EAGLE

Don't worry Mr.Wespenest,
You can always wear it on your walking-out dress when you are goiing to a "kneipe", after a few beers and with the lights dimmed nobody will notice the difference between a "big" A one , and a good one!
Happy collecting,Pieter.

[Jos L C]

Well now,Mr.Verbruggen,
Can you tel me exactly why they are fake and why all our trustful dealers are selling these for real ???
It was already on my walking-out dress and I pinned on my fake Aluminium Assmann Pilotsbadge too !
Let's talk !!

Jos.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Dear Mr.Wespennest,

I am beginning to feel who you are. At that time we discussed that "big" A eagle, I gave you my opinion in the first place to help and inform you with the experience I have with those eagles. NOT to criticize your item, but to make you clear wy I won't offer you such piece.
So don't make it a comic-strip , I can read between the lines!
Again for my personal opinion, and a lot of collectors agree,I do not like these big "A" eagles.
Let see what the end of the discussion will bring. The mean thing is that we stay both happy with what we have.
For me this discussion ends here.
Happy collecting, and when you see me at a show, say hello .
Pieter

[Jos L C]

Hello,
Still there's no answer why these are fake and why great dealers do not know that !

Regards,
Jos.

[Gene]

I'm with Jos on this one. What makes them fake? Let's share the info so we don't get burned on yet another item.

[Mike Kenny]

For Pieter and François,

I am open minded on this issue but I'm with the guys who'd like to learn a little more as to why the "big A" eagles are fake. If you'd prefer to respond on the member's only forum or send a private e-mail for whatever reason that's fine but I'm hoping it can come out on this forum.

I'm posting images of two aluminium Assmann LW breast eagle's. I own both, so if one or both is a repro then I've been fooled and I can live with that. The top one is marked "A DRGM", the lower one with the big A. The upper one weighs 9.47g, the lower one 9.44g. Both measure exactly the same, to the second decimal point. They are both definitely die struck aluminium. The die characteristics are definitely DIFFERENT though, especially in the feathering on the eagle's body, so they did not come from the same set of dies, nor is one somehow a cast or repro of the other.

If the "big A" eagle is a fake, is the A DRGM eagle also a fake/repro?

Regards
Mike K

[François SAEZ]

Well - I am going to try the excercize:
First, it has to be clear that it is only my opinion and that you are free not to like it as it is not a fact AND as I am not going to play the game of "prove it is right or wrong".

Less than 10 years ago, at the Clignancourt flea market (in Paris) - when good stuff were still showing up, one of the dealer had a box (more than 200) of theses LW Aluminium Assman Breast Eagles - by the way, used not only on summer flight - he was selling as fake (something around $ 15) with the provenance (country - and this is the shame as I don't remember where they where made).
Step II: If you take a wartime catalogue of Assman (I don't have one, but maybe another collector can illustrate what, like I did at that time, you won't see the LW Aluminium Breast Eagle with a BIG "A" BUT the small "A" D.R.G.M. as the one shown by Mike.

So ,it is quiet difficult to prove or not to prove, I share here my experience and opinion but nothing more - If somebody has a LW Aluminium Assman Breast Eagles with the big "A" and think they are ok, fine with me - those badges are not good IMO and won't be in my collection.
On the other hand, I feel ok with the other one posted by Mike and have one like that.

We share opinions here.

François

[Jos L C]

Hi,
Ok,François,
I respect your opinion.
I've looked in a original Assmann cataloge and saw a total different Beobachter abzeichen as we use to see.
Does that say that all the Beobachters sold by Niemann,Weitze and other dealers are fake ????
Mr.Verbruggen told me that the big A eagles were made in the USA.
Why do American collectors don't know that ???
Why is Detlev selling them as good,I think he must have had a few from families etc. ??
A lot of other questions go through my mind and although we are dealing in opinions here,someone must know the thruth,that's obvious for me and not so difficult while there are many white or other jackets that have showed up with a Summer eagle that came from families.
I hope this secret will be revealed and I can't imagine that something like this is so difficult to solve !
I'm planning to do anything in this to search for the thruth and not go for any opinions in this till I know the real answer for there are to many collectors who have bought these for real !
I'm posting a picture of a big A reverse of a till now real fake.
I've got this picture from a collector,it's a cast eagle,but that's obvious

Jos.

[Jos L C]

fake.