Destroyer Badge BM Meybauer?

[Liquidmetall]

Hello,

i have buy this badge today. It is a Meybauer?

BR Marcus

[Liquidmetall]

or Otto Schickle?

[BubbaZ]

Hi,
It is very nice tombak Destroyer made by Petz & Lorenz, Pforzheim
Congrats!
Cheers,
Hubert

[Liquidmetall]

Hello Hubert are you sure?

This is my Otto Schickle Minesweeper.

[Norm F]

Hi Marcus,

Like Hubert says, that's a nice classic Petz & Lorenz Destroyer. You can see the classic bow wave flaw in the obverse that matches the P&L catalog image.

Your Minesweeper badge with the same setup is also a P&L, not a Schickle. Schickle used the same obverse design as P&L but the Schickles have a distinctive flaw in the swastika that is absent on your P&L.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi, I am pretty sure
I have two tombak P&L minesweepers like your fine example.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

and another.
Type 2.6.1 in the Minesweeper Classification Table

[BubbaZ]

Hi Marcus,
As Norm has said the wave flaw is the easiest hint, but it is not present on all P&L Destroyers - Norm, correct me if I am wrong.
I usually look on the finish and hinge/pin on these destroyers. Only on P&L KM awards we can see such typical silver undercoat.
For comparison I enclose Schickle tombak badges from my collection, two Minesweepers and Destroyer.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Marcus,
As Norm has said the wave flaw is the easiest hint, but it is not present on all P&L Destroyers - Norm, correct me if I am wrong.

Quite right, the bow flaw is an easy characteristic to spot, but a few examples lack the flaw. Interestingly the three unflawed examples we've seen posted in recent times have variant hardware applied to them. Perhaps P&L tried different setups before settling on the final one by which point the die flaw had developed?

Here are the two threads showing the unflawed examples:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=560951
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=574353

Best regards,
---Norm

[Liquidmetall]

OK, OK, OK, I understand. It is a rare one?

BR Marcus

[Norm F]

OK, OK, OK, I understand. It is a rare one?

BR Marcus

Hi Marcus,

Among the Tombak Destroyers, it's not as rare as Meybauer and Beco, but certainly much less common than Schwerin and Schickle. I'd put it about the same level of rarity as the Tombak S&L and Deumer Destroyers.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Mark McShane]

I would say more uncommon than rare, but thats just me

[Mike Kenny]

I'm seeing a lot of differences between the P&L catalog badge, which appears to be a pic of a real badge, and the one in question? Some differences may be trimming and or lighting effects but some differences are definitely not due to lighting or trimming, they are differences in die details.

Regards
Mike

[Norm F]

I'm seeing a lot of differences between the P&L catalog badge, which appears to be a pic of a real badge, and the one in question? Some differences may be trimming and or lighting effects but some differences are definitely not due to lighting or trimming, they are differences in die details.

Regards
Mike

Hi Mike,

I see what you mean (for some of your circles anyway), but I think there are limitations to the finer comparisons that one can do with the fuzzy blowup of the catalog image. Although based on a photo, it could have been touched up by hand to remove shadows etc. which could affect the outlines somewhat. It's similar to the situation of the S&L catalog image of the Schwerin U-Boat which also shows small differences from the actual badge although recognizable for what it is nevertheless.

Furthermore, for the P&L Minesweepers there are some examples of variants with hand finishing of the margins which cause differences in the outlines from the standardly stamped versions, so the same could apply to the Destroyer.

If Marcus' badge is from a different die than the photo, then P&L would have had two dies with the same large bow wave flaw which seems less likely?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Liquidmetall]

Now, the badge enter his port...