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**djpool** · 05-14-2012, 03:39 PM

I have been collecting data on wartime dyes, German depots, textiles etc. I have even started putting some of my finding into a book draft. Heres one portion from a 1945 report. I believe it may be from the BIOS and FIOS reports put together by allied personnel after the war. these reports covered a wide spectrum of topics. I believe most of the reports on the Petroleum Industry are on the web. I own many of the reports on personal products and rations. I'll have to see if I can find the catalogue to see what they published on the textile industry.

We used the Intelligence report titled German Army “Einheitstuch” Standard Cloth Field Gray, 19 June, 1945 as the basis for the following discussion.
<text>In 1926 the Reichswehr adopted two field grays: a greenish gray for tunics and a bluish gray for trousers. In 1940 the bluish gray color was discontinued. Here are the vat dye specifications for the Reichswehr adopted field grays:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o

></o

>
BEGIN TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
NAME: Coat Field Gray Blend<o></o>
Color 1:<o></o>
<indnt>2% Indigo MLB vat 60% pieces<o></o>
<indnt>2.88% Helindon Brown CV vat Pdr.<o></o>
<indnt>1.37% Helindon Yellow CG vat Pdr.<o></o>
Blend<o></o>
<indnt>75 parts of Color 1<o></o>
<indnt>25 parts White<o></o>
<o></o>
END TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
BEGIN TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
NAME: Trousers New Gray Cloth Blend<o></o>
Color 2:<o></o>
<indnt>5% Helindon Black 3 B vat Pdr.<o></o>
<indnt>4.5% Helindon Black T vat Pdr.<o></o>
Color 3:<o></o>
<indnt>0.27% Helindon Black T vat Pdr.<o></o>
Blend<o></o>
<indnt>50 parts of Color 2<o></o>
<indnt>25 parts of Color 3<o></o>
<indnt>25 parts White<o></o>
<o></o>
END TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
<text>In 1944 a new brownish gray color was adopted. The justification was based on better camouflage properties. The Hoechst factory worked out the official mixture which was initially based on four ground shades (tan, green, brown-green, and gold) and 8% white wool. This combination did not work properly and only three shades were selected as shown below:
<o></o>
BEGIN TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
NAME: Field Gray 1944<o></o>
<indnt>30 parts Yellow<o></o>
<indnt>20 parts Olive Gray<o></o>
<indnt>40 parts Field Green<o></o>
<indnt>8 parts White<o></o>
<o></o>
END TEXT BOX<o></o>
<o

></o

>
<text>The original specifications limited the cloth manufacturer to the use of vat dyes for the dying of wools (virgin or new) were never changed. This restriction did hold true for wool waste and reworked wools which could be dyed with vat or chrome colors. (Authors note: Vat dyes are essentially insoluble in water and incapable of dyeing fibers directly. The original vat dye is indigo.Mordant/Chrome dyes require a mordant or a substance used to set dyes on fabrics. Most natural dyes are mordant dyes; however the most important mordant dyes are the synthetic mordant dyes, or chrome dyes, used for wool. These dyes are especially useful for black and navy shades). For the rayon staple portion of the fabric the dying could be done with either vat or sulphur dyes or dyed directly in the spinning solution. It appears that vat dyed wool was preferred over chrome dyed wool.
<text>The infra red sensitivity of all dyes in question were studied and indigo was found to be the main offender. With the reduction of the blue component in the 1944 shade, a considerable reduction in the infra red sensitivity took place.
<text>When the war began the Germans looked closely at the economic aspect of cloth production. The vat dying process compared to the chrome dying process for wool had the advantage of higher production in dying, better running in spinning and shorter fulling time, which meant a savings in time and labor, as well as a savings in steam because of the low temperatures necessary in vat dying.
<text>The major economic challenge was how to stretch the available stocks of wool, since Germany only produced 10% of its requirements. The only other sources for wool were wool wastes and tailor clippings and rags. Chrome dyes worked best on reworked wool. However it was left up to the manufacturer to use chrome or vat dyes. Towards the end of the war the largest percentage waste and reworked wool was field gray in color, which eliminated the need for dyeing.

Originally posted by brooksbz View Post

There is a 1945 quartermaster report titled the "Richardson Report". This report is supposed to provide a summary German dyes and textiles. I plan to get a copy. I have a background in chemistry and have read all of the obvious sources in print and the internet. Does anyone have any information on German dyes from around 1900-1945? Specifications, etc..?

Thank you. Any info would be useful.

**Diane** · 05-15-2012, 09:34 AM

Richardson Report

I once held an original copy of this report in my hands that was the property of the US Army Air Defense Center Library. IT was declared "excess" and destroyed in front of my eyes.

Government regulations did not allow for copying or private sale.

**djpool** · 05-15-2012, 10:43 AM

Sometimes the military does stupid things when theres absolutely no reason too. A friend of mine picked up a copy of the Panther Fibel when they were cleaning out offices in FT Knox. I have several German wartime phone books thrown out by Intelligence units. Military DRMOs sold off whole libraries when posts closed. They could have given you the report without any fear of retribution. They were just being uncooperative.

Jim

Originally posted by Diane View Post

I once held an original copy of this report in my hands that was the property of the US Army Air Defense Center Library. IT was declared "excess" and destroyed in front of my eyes.

Government regulations did not allow for copying or private sale.

**brooksbz** · 05-17-2012, 03:32 PM

thx

Thanks to those who posted. I'll post some more info soon!

**Johnny R** · 05-17-2012, 05:21 PM

Did you try here?-

http://www.armyhistory.org/ahf2.aspx?pgID=867

You may want to contact them.

This guy who is a WA member may also be able to help, NARA is full of WWII documents but they are generally poorly organized and specific documents can sometimes be hard to find.

http://www.westmorelandresearch.org/

**Willi Z.** · 05-17-2012, 05:37 PM

I have a copy of the Richardson Report. I think it was reprinted in England in the 80's, if I am not mistaken. Very interesting.....

I also found some information in the National Archives when I was going there for information on FJ smocks.

Jim, that sounds like a worthy endeavor!

**brooksbz** · 05-17-2012, 08:30 PM

Thx

Thank you Willi! I have a copy of the report coming in the mail. I don't see much on the forum on this topic, so I wanted to add as much useful info as we can.

**Richard P** · 05-18-2012, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by brooksbz View Post

Thank you Willi! I have a copy of the report coming in the mail. I don't see much on the forum on this topic, so I wanted to add as much useful info as we can.

Brooksbz,

What does it matter if you get stuff tested (panzer wraps) for original period materials, when if it is rare, it is automatically considered fake? Original materials are for sale all over Europe and probably the US too. You can have perfect maker stamps made for a buck. I always wondered how Singer called stuff from just one photo...ta da, magic.

Richard

**brooksbz** · 05-18-2012, 04:44 AM

science

I was hoping that the scientific method based on a well-founded hypothesis would have a place at the militaria collecting table. Testing could be used as a screening tool and would help rule out some items.

I have been thinking about the input data, the analysis method and the output data to determine if there could actually be something to learn.

Actually I believe Mr. Singer made a comment about items about dyeing field gray items black in one of the wrapper threads, and that got me thinking. Black acid dyes is a good place to start.

**djpool** · 05-18-2012, 06:34 AM

Hey Willi,

Thanks. Not sure it will actually translate into anything but I do have a hodgepodge of info on textiles, depots, stamps etc. Jim

Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post

I have a copy of the Richardson Report. I think it was reprinted in England in the 80's, if I am not mistaken. Very interesting.....

I also found some information in the National Archives when I was going there for information on FJ smocks.

Jim, that sounds like a worthy endeavor!

**djpool** · 05-18-2012, 06:41 AM

I certainly support your efforts. Its hard to believe that the black light is still the hobbies major scientific tool. I think science may hold the key to sorting out some of the fakes which have plagued our hobby. In the back of my mind theres the hope that wartime dyes or threads either contain or lack a substance (which can be tested for)when compared to postwar items. Jim

Originally posted by brooksbz View Post

I was hoping that the scientific method based on a well-founded hypothesis would have a place at the militaria collecting table. Testing could be used as a screening tool and would help rule out some items.

I have been thinking about the input data, the analysis method and the output data to determine if there could actually be something to learn.

Actually I believe Mr. Singer made a comment about items about dyeing field gray items black in one of the wrapper threads, and that got me thinking. Black acid dyes is a good place to start.

**echoe** · 05-18-2012, 09:59 AM

black light

"Its hard to believe that the black light is still the hobbies major scientific tool." dj pool

I heartily second that.

tc

**Johnny R** · 05-18-2012, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by djpool View Post

I certainly support your efforts. Its hard to believe that the black light is still the hobbies major scientific tool. I think science may hold the key to sorting out some of the fakes which have plagued our hobby. In the back of my mind theres the hope that wartime dyes or threads either contain or lack a substance (which can be tested for)when compared to postwar items. Jim

I agree and already have started looking at wool content for issue items using a microscope. The period fabrics are very different in composition then modern textiles.

I love the black light but it can not be relied upon 100%. it is still very useful to rule out ribbons etc. Like anything in life you have to know the limitations of the tool you are using.

**werner p.** · 05-18-2012, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post

I have a copy of the Richardson Report. I think it was reprinted in England in the 80's, if I am not mistaken. Very interesting.....

I also found some information in the National Archives when I was going there for information on FJ smocks.

Jim, that sounds like a worthy endeavor!

Willi,

that ISO PUBLICATIONS reprint is only one chapter of it.... ( in cooperation with Dr Borsarello)

We have an original copy of the full Richardson Report ( > 250 pages ! ) and the results of our inquiery will be published in our upcoming book on german Zeltbahns.

See my website www.ereitzuniformwerke.be for more info

pw

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