Metal Eagle Id

[Dan M]

I've had this plaque(plywood) with a hollow, probably aluminum, eagle nailed to it. Any opinions as to what organization it represents and what it was used for?
It's approx. 6.38 inches wide and 4 inches long. It has some corrosion.

Thanks

[Dan M]

Pic 3

[Br. James]

Dear Dan,

An interesting piece, though I don't readily recognize it as representative of any of the logos the NDSAP or TR organizations used during the period. The overall sculptural work is highly detailed, though the perspective seems a bit off, especially as regards the size of the eagle's head as compared with the wings and body, and also the wreathed swas, which seems to me to be a bit too large for the rest of the piece. The wings are also thicker than they usually are, which may be because the body length is taller than normal. IMO this may be a fantasy piece created in the 1960s or '70s to simulate Nazi eagles, and not from the period at all.

Hope this is helpful.

Br. James

[mrec27777]

[QUOTE=Br. James;5088505]Dear Dan,

An interesting piece, though I don't readily recognize it as representative of any of the logos the NDSAP or TR organizations used during the period. The overall sculptural work is highly detailed, though the perspective seems a bit off, especially as regards the size of the eagle's head as compared with the wings and body, and also the wreathed swas, which seems to me to be a bit too large for the rest of the piece. The wings are also thicker than they usually are, which may be because the body length is taller than normal. IMO this may be a fantasy piece created in the 1960s or '70s to simulate Nazi eagles, and not from the period at all.
this may be a "fantasy" piece created in the 60's or 70's ..hard to tell ,but i disagree that it could be merely because it doesn't look NSDAPor TR ....there were many,MANY variations of these eagles ..google "third reich in ruins " and you will see many examples ..

[Dan M]

Thanks for the replies. I want to add that it does not appear to be cast but rather stamped as the metal is very light and thin. It is fastened to the plywood with small nails. The surface has some corrosion or weathering possibly. I'm tempted to remove it to see if there are any markings on the reverse but I don't want to damage it. There are four uniform holes in the wreath for some unknown reason. If you need more info, let me know.

[mrec27777]

there appears to be holes around the casting in the neck area?,am i correct? also, it would be nice to carefully remove it from the plywood to see if there are any kind of markings on the back ...it could be easily done with correct tools.

[Dan M]

I succumbed to temptation and removed the eagle from the plaque. There is a very tiny RZM symbol and either the number 28,78, or 98. I would say 78 using a magnifying glass. It is located at the upper left corner of the swaztica. I couldn't get a better shot of it with the camera that I have.

[mrec27777]

I succumbed to temptation and removed the eagle from the plaque. There is a very tiny RZM symbol and either the number 28,78, or 98. I would say 78 using a magnifying glass. It is located at the upper left corner of the swaztica. I couldn't get a better shot of it with the camera that I have.

great detective work,mate!!!..now we need period pics of this eagle in display or by current owners!

[mrec27777]

it appears that this eagle was "tied " to something ,via those holes that are placed close together ...let's have input from other great members out there!

[Br. James]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for 'going the extra mile' and removing the piece from the wooden backing; doing that is often fraught with trepidation as to what damage could be done! Glad to know that you can see an RZM logo and a number on the reverse, which I can't see on the pix. I do realize that there were MANY eagle/swaz designs during the period, representing near countless organizations and groups, and none of us has probably seen them all...I would never claim that I have. I hope someone can come forward with a similar piece and ID this one. And if this is a piece acknowledged by the RZM, then they must have accepted it as representing one group or another.

Br. James

[Dan M]

Here is a little better pic of the RZM mark.

[Br. James]

Thanks Dan, and the enlargement is most helpful in making out what looks like the RZM logo and what appears to be "78." I am no expert on the RZM classifications or the evolution of their category markings, but to me it looks like this is an early code, prior to the fully-developed M/ system. The problem is that, without the M/ prefix, we don't know which of the ten categories this item is intended to fall into. The obvious one would be M/1 -- manufacturers of metal badges and insignia -- and without any further information about this piece, I would therefore suggest that it may have been made by M/1 78, Paulmann & Crone of Lüdenscheid. But I hope we can hear from others who have more experience with the RZM codes, and still others who may recognize this style of eagle/swaz as representative of a particular group or organization.

Br. James

[Dan M]

Thank you for your reply. I'm sure somewhere down the line, we'll find out what it is. The holes do look like they were used to fasten it to something, maybe a banner, funeral maybe, with thread. I did find another thread with the rzm 78 code used on SA hat eagles made by the company you mention.

[Military]

The eagle does not conform to the standard stylised eagle and I would find it odd for the RZM to approve of it. Why would the RZM approve of it? RZM stamps can be as easily faked. For this, i don't like the looks and would pass on it.

Mil

[Br. James]

Thanks Mil -- you touched on my original concern when you said "The eagle does not conform to the standard stylised eagle..." I am still hoping that someone will come forward and ID this particular style of eagle/swaz as belonging to a particular organization or group, but failing that...

Br. James