Nice U- Boot Kriegsabzeichen in blue cardboard, maker?

[Valentino]

I got this nice U- Boot Kriegsabzeichen in this nice blue cardbox with the original paper inside.

I want to sell it on estand, but maybe I have to know the maker before?

Many thanks for your help!

[Valentino]

2

[Valentino]

3

[Valentino]

mhhh no idea?

[AndyC]

Hi

For me it looks like a unmarked Funcke & Brüninghaus
But i havent seen any F&B before with that pin setup before
Lets wait for more inputs


Andy

[Martin W]

As Andy has mentioned this is an unmarked Funcke & Bruninghaus badge.

This needle pin variant can seen on page 156 of the Weber/Skora "KM Awards" edition in English with the remarks:

"Examples of this unmarked type vary in quality and some show casting bubbles in the zinc,raising doubt about the whole line.
At this time,no concensus has been acheived in the collecting community regarding the authenticity of this badge".

So,this type could possibly be a late war or postwar variant by F&B?





Regards,Martin.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I agree with the previous comments, an unmarked zincer usually attributed to F&Br (Funcke & Brueninghaus) because these round-wire pin setup badges exactly match the L/56 marked wide-pin versions and share the same die flaw on the left wing feather. Although one can't r/o another maker using the same obverse with different reverse, this thread here shows an unmarked example with the same wide-pin setup used on the marked badges, although admittedly even this wide-pin setup was somewhat generic and used by other makers as well:
U Boat opinions needed.

It's crude examples like the one in this thread ( Zinc UBOAT badge ) that cast some doubt on the period of manufacture, although other examples seem perfectly "wartime compatible" like Rob's in this thread:
Unmarked Funcke and Brueninghaus U-boat

Since a lot of post-war badge assembly was taking place in Lüdenscheid for the souvenir market, it's really impossible without provenance to know the difference between unmarked late war zincers and post-war assembly, and we're left with non-committal descriptions like "wartime compatible" which is how I would describe Valentino's badge.

Best regards,
---Norm

[mrg]

Hi personally I have no issues with this award, worn original F&B with accepted reverse hardwhare, complete with flaw

[BubbaZ]

Hi,
I agree, zinc unmarked U-boat badge by Funcke & Bruninghaus, Ludensheid
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi personally I have no issues with this award, worn original F&B with accepted reverse hardwhare, complete with flaw

Hi Gary,

Are you aware of marked versions with this setup and wartime provenance, or are you just going by the fact that the same obverse die as the marked versions was used?

I don't doubt that at least some of these unmarked ones could be late war...the problem is you can't know for sure, and why use a rectangular catch plate different from F&Br's practise on their marked badges? It doesn't help that there are weird variations like the those having the catch mounted backwards and also this weird one with hybrid setup and a spurious "4" mark.

This kind of sloppiness makes me wonder about post-war assembly of original parts.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Valentino]

Mhhh Badge came out of the woodwork with EK 1 and EK2 and a Framed photo from U Boot Soldier ( Leitender Ingineur ).

[mrg]

Hi norm excuses as I am a little worse for wear, I have never come across a marked version with this style of set up to my knowledge there were two types of this award offical and private purchase, private purchase to my knowledge bore the mm which would make more sense as they are less common. I am awalys dubious about time lines in late war bages as many award could easily fall into post war badges which would be a travesty and simply down to a book. If you look I have one of these awards with the reverse set up and backward facing hinge and have no issue with it and i have had the chance to replace with on a couple of occassion with a marked example. Just my worse for wear opinion, take care

[Norm F]

Hi norm excuses as I am a little worse for wear, I have never come across a marked version with this style of set up to my knowledge there were two types of this award offical and private purchase, private purchase to my knowledge bore the mm which would make more sense as they are less common. I am awalys dubious about time lines in late war bages as many award could easily fall into post war badges which would be a travesty and simply down to a book. If you look I have one of these awards with the reverse set up and backward facing hinge and have no issue with it and i have had the chance to replace with on a couple of occassion with a marked example. Just my worse for wear opinion, take care

Hi Gary,

Sounds like you're having a better time than me!

Like I say I don't doubt that at least some of these are likely wartime, just that we can't tell by looking at them. Could be all of them, some of them or none of them.

The story of the unmarked wire pin badges being official awards in contrast to the L/56 marked private purchase ones is just the theory of collectors like us to try to fit the observations. It may very well be the truth but we simply don't know. And for whatever reason there are a few lousy looking examples as well. I'm happy to call badges like yours and Valentino's and Rob's "likely wartime production", but not the '4' marked example I posted nor the pitted one posted in the other thread. And given the plethora of leftovers in unbombed Lüdenscheid in particular, anything's possible.

That's why terms like "probably late wartime" or "wartime compatible" are preferred over blanket acceptance of all as certain wartime provenance F&BL badges. Likewise I would never assume that every one of the plethora of zinc S&L Minesweepers were wartime assembled even though we accept them all as genuine S&L badges.

Best regards,
---Norm