S & L AC and RS Destroyer badges for review

[hcliffe]

Just got these in, comments and feedback appreciated before I put them on the estand.

#1 Auxilary Cruiser

[hcliffe]

2 Cruiser badge by RS

[Pepe77]

Yours Auxilary cruiser badge looks good to me. Producer F&B or St & L ...

[Norm F]

Hi HC,

The RS Destroyer looks "wartime compatible". You can just never tell for sure without provenance when these were assembled though because of Souval's uninterrupted business after the war.

The Auxiliary Cruiser is by S&L and this example is most likely a post-war assembled product. See this thread for further discussion of these badges with the "Type 2" globe, and in that thread is a link to the GCA thread where the reasoning is described in more detail.

In a nutshell, these globes are usually found in examples with other oddities in finish or rivets, and they're also found in S&L's later '57 versions but not in their early '57 versions.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi hcliffe,
RS Destroyer looks fine to me
S&L AC, as Norm has said, features postwar globe and a wreath seems refinished to me.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Martin W]

Hi Harry,

could you post a shot of the rivet on the S&L Hilfskreuzer,if there is one?

Cheers,Martin.

[hcliffe]

The catch is bent over and I don't want to risk bending it back to open the pin, so hard to get a shot underneath, but here is what I have.

[hcliffe]

x

[Norm F]

Hi Harry,

I'm not quite sure what we're seeing on the photos. In hand, does it look to you like the rivet has been soldered over, or perhaps coated in some kind of finish?

Best regards,
---Norm

[hcliffe]

Yes, looks to be soldered over.

[Norm F]

Yes, looks to be soldered over.

Interesting. It'll be interesting to see what Martin says, but once again, it's these odd anomalies that occur in association with the Type 2 globe -- hollow rivets, absent rivets and now this soldered-over rivet, other times it's an atypical catch or silvered boat or lighter weight.

I'm just not comfortable with the Type 2 globe. I suspect that S&L, like Souval, at war's end had leftover stock of planchets and hardware but at some point ran out of the original globes, and hence the Type 2 was born. The fact that they appear on S&L's later '57 versions argues against some 3rd party getting a hold of stock to produce these badges, although just to add insult to injury it was the Type 2 globe that Staegemeier chose to copy on his version.

So I think this is still a genuine S&L product, just not wartime assembled.

Cheers.
---Norm

[Martin W]

Well this is a first for me.

As Norm mentioned,an odd anomily.

I have seen a few of these "late/post war" S&L badges with no rivet at all which suggests that the globe was simply soldered to the badge?

I am of the opinion that what we are seeing here is that the excess solder seeped through the rivet hole while the globe was being attached?

It is the only explanation i can think of right now?

Regards,Martin.

[hcliffe]

Thanks for all the input guys, glad to have contributed a bit more to the mystery...

[Martin W]

Hi Harry,

i am actually pleased to see another of these S&L variants with the "silver" ship.
Here is one that i have.Traces of a silver finish can be seen on the ship and combined with the fact that the globe is not rivetted to the badge,we are now of the opinion that these practices were adopted by S&L postwar?


With the exception of the "wide-line" globe all other components are period made i think.

Regards,Martin.

[Martin W]

Here we can clearly see that no rivet has been used to attach the globe.