First generation Dress-tunic

[Asbjoern]

At the weekend I took the chance - given by the "not so good" weather - to restore some stuff. During the last years aquired some incomplete jackets that needed some work ... from simply adding the collar insignia and the missing star on the shoulderboard at the "Affenjacke" to a complete rework on the two-pocket tunic of the Hauptmann wich was completely stripped... The Oberfeld once was a officer grade tunic, but some loons took of all the piping ... but I´m thankfull as they left all the buttons and the shoulderboards at their place...

So here they are:
Oberleutnant der Infantrie, dating 1955 - 1957


Oberfeldwebel der Pioniere, dating 1955 - 1957



Yes, the the piping on this tunic is really "altgold" and not silver ...
... and as last, the Hauptmann der San.-Truppe, dating 1957 - 196?: The jacket itself is from 1956 but is modernised with "altsilver" buttons and collar tabs. The 1957 ribbon bar is definetely from a BW medic - it came in with a big lot of scientific books, photos etc pp from a estate clear out.





Jens

[Gordon Craig]

Jens,

Nice tunics. One question. Didn't the early tunics come without piping and that was added at a later date? Seems I discussed that once with Uwe but can not remember the date as to when the piping was authorized.

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

Gordon,

to my knowledge the tunics of portepee-NCO and officers had the piping from the first day on. Already in the first publications they can be seen. At least the officers tunics where issued with the complete silver piping already attached. It can be clearly seen as the piping of the shoulderboards is inserted into the shoulder seem together with the board itself. Also the sewing technique used to fix the piping can only be carried out in a production stage of the jacket when it is not put together. On the NCO tunics it may be different. Due to the regulation the two pocket tunic should not be issued to EM and non portepee-NCO - so this kind of jacket should not exist without piping. But my restored one never had any piping - a small trace would have survived, but there was nothing to see. Also there is another tunics of this type in the collection of a friend which has its piping clearly attached by handsewing ... Maybe the tunic was handed out to the "Anwärter" (candidate) without piping to be added later when he was promoted... (My theory).

Jens

[Gordon Craig]

Jens,

Sorry for my confused comment. What I should have said was that tunics for mannschaften had no piping. Unteroffiziere had piping on their tunics and once the soldier was promoted to unteroffizier he would add the piping to the tunic. I have a tunic like the other collector you mentioned with the piping hand sewn to the collar becuase of the promotion.

Regards,

Gordon

[Asbjoern]

Gordon,

did not reconize confusion... I´m also a bit puzzled of the fact that these kind of uniform was issued without piping - depending on the regulation - as it should not be worn beneath a defined rank. Following the regulation a piped tunic may have been issued to a guy only after his promotion and not the above mentioned way...


Jens

[speedytop]

Hi Jens,

sorry, but I don't see "altgold" piping, because "altgold" is a dark gold. Please compare it with the other insignias, they are "altgold":




Sorry, but I don't see medical service, I see the typical blue for the "Feldzeugtruppe":



Uwe

[Asbjoern]

The question of colour...

Uwe, the problem with this "altgold" is that it is really new (old stock) in contrast to the insignia and the pictures are taken in the sunlight. In reality it´s a bit more "altgold" then it seems - just the same way as on another NCO tunic which is definitely untouched...

Dark blue or not... compared with a "original proven" medic tunic these tabs should be dark blue while the boards of a "original proven" Feldzeugtruppe tunic where in a much lighter shade... but as stated in another thread this is sometimes hard to judge....

Regards,

Jens

[Guardian 5]

Jens - Zehr schon!

[Gordon Craig]

Gordon,

did not reconize confusion... I´m also a bit puzzled of the fact that these kind of uniform was issued without piping - depending on the regulation - as it should not be worn beneath a defined rank. Following the regulation a piped tunic may have been issued to a guy only after his promotion and not the above mentioned way...


Jens

Jens,

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing so I am going to post what Hormann says in his book "Die Bundeswehr und ihre Uniformen" and uniforms from my collection. The pictures and text in Hormann's book look as though they are copied from official BW documents but I am not 100% sure of that.

First up, on page 41 from the book, "Dienstgradeabzeichen Mannschaften Heer und Luftwaffe".

[Gordon Craig]

Next, a uniform for the ranks mentioned above without piping.

[Gordon Craig]

From page 42 of the referenced book "Dienstgradabzeichen der Unteroffiziere Heer und Luftwaffe. These tunics tunics piping around the collar.

[Gordon Craig]

Here is my unteroffiziere tunic with the metallic piping hand sewn into place. As Jens mentioned earlier, he knows a collector with a tunic that has the metallic braid hand sewn around the collar. The tunic from my collection also has the piping hand sewn around the collar. I mentioned above that the piping would be added once a soldier was promoted. I don't think Jens agrees with this and he may be correct. I have never seen an Unteroffiziere tunic with the metallic braid sewn into place during construction of the tunic. I suspect that all enlisted men's tunics were made without the piping and that it was added later, by hand sewing it into place, either as a man was promoted or before the tunic was issued to an Unteroffiziere.

[Gordon Craig]

Page 43 from the reference book "Dienstgradeabzeichen der Offiziere Heer und Luftwaffe 12. Nov. 1955 bis 31. Juli 1956".

[Gordon Craig]

The offiziere tunic from my collection for this period. The metallic piping was obviously made part of the tunic while it was being constructed. The rank stars are missing from the shoulder boards and I need to replace them sometime soon!

[Guardian 5]

Gents - See below for a series of reference photos depicting the first style dress tunic.

First up is an Oberleutnant with no litzen or branch insignia.

All the best - TJ