Brown waffenfarbe

[jacquesf]

For anybody interested in the shades of brown waffenfarbe, here are three different shades, flat brown, yellow brown, and a reddish brown. Any one care to attribute these to the correct section of the Heer. My guess:

Flat brown= Bau
Yellow brown= Armed recon/motorcycle
Reddish brown= Armed recon/motorcycle

[derka]

hello Jacques,
my guess :
- brown/braun is for bautruppen, different categories of specialized engineers units; like the one on the left on your pic.
- gold yellow/goldgelb is for cav/reco units mainly, but this colour piping doesn't match IMO the one in the center of your pic.
- copperbrown/kupferbraun is for motorcycle bataillons (Kraftschützenbataillone) in armored or motorized divisions, this piping could match the one on the right of your pic.
but pics are sometimes tricky.
derka

[Johnny R]

This is mint unissued krad with no fading. Bau is more of a dull brown.

[jacquesf]

The middle color is definitely more towards the color posted by John. The pic don't show the yellow tone and it is worn quite heavily. Did the krad wore the reddish brown and yellow brown? Jacques

[lieproo]

The first one looks like the piping color of some construction units,the one on the middle mash the color for the pre 1936 signal piping and the last one for recon .

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello Jacques

Most Krad wore Hellgrun until '41 then some changed to the copper brown...
Perhaps the one on the right is Krad, hard for me to tell from photo. The other two look brown to me from photo.

Here is list of units in Afrika and the Balkans: copied from C Evans list, Thanks. 1941-42.


Combat Troops Staff: Waffenfarbe

Generals---Color was Red.
--------------------------------------------------
Color is: White.
Army Group Staffs. A.G's. G,E,F, Staffs.
Army Staffs. Army Group "A" 2,12 Staffs.
Armored Group Staffs. "Afrika."
Korps Stabs. 11th, 30th, 51st, 52nd, 65th, 68th, 69th, 91st.
Reserve Stabs. 59th.
Motorized Korps Stabs. 41st.
--------------------------------------------------
Color is Pink.

Armored Army Staffs.
Armored Korps Staffs. 14,40,46.
--------------------------------------------------
Color is: Light Green/Grass Green.
Gebirgejager Korps Staffs. 15th, 18th, 21st, 22nd, 46th.
__________________________________________________

Combat Troops--Infantry:
Color is: White.

Infantry Division Staffs.
1st Airlanding (Luftlande) Div Staff.
Assault (Sturm) Division Staffs. Rhodes.
Infantry Regiments. 16 thru 750.
Grenadier Regiments. 754,755.
Reenforcement Bataillons.220, 598,599.
Afrika Division Staff. 90,999.
Motorized Infantry Div Staffs. 16, 60.
Motorized Infantry Regiments Staffs. 60, 92.
Motorized Grenadier Regiment Staffs. 120, 156.
Motorized Regiment Grossdeutschland.
Special Purpose Div (Div zbV) Staffs.
Special Purpose Rgmt (zbV) Staffs.
Fortress Division Staffs. 41, 133, Kreta.
Fortress Btns. 621,622,623.
Fortress Infantry Btns. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,16,18,19,20,21,22,99 9.1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,16,18,19,20,21,22, 999.
Reserve Division Staffs. 173,187.
Reserve Infantry/Grenadier Rgmts. 17, 45, 130, 231, 462.
Flak Btns.

__________________________________________________
Color is: Light Green/Grass Green.

Machinegun Battaillons. 2,8.
Gebirgsjager Div Staffs. 1,4,5,6.
Gerbirgs Regiments. 13,85,91,98,99,100,141,143.
Mountain Reinforcement (Feldersatz) Btns. 91,94,95.
Jager Div Staffs. 42,100,104,114,117,118.
Jager Rgmts.25 thru 750.
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------Various colors.
1 (Sonderverband) 288.
Brandenburg Btns. 1,2,4.
__________________________________________________
Combat Troops-Mobile: (Schnell Truppen)
Color is: Gold-Yellow:
Mobile Div Staffs.
Motorcycle Recon Btns. 59.
Division Recon (Divisionsaufklarung) Btns. 42 thru 392.
Motorized Recon Btns. 3,5,8,9,33,40,231.
Mountain Recon (Gebirgsaufklarung) Btn. 33.
Div Fusilier Btns. 181,297.
__________________________________________________
Color is: Pink.

Panzer Div Staffs. 1,2,5,8,9,10,11,14,15.
Panzer Regiments. 1,3,5,7,8,10,15,31,33,36.
Motorcycle Recon Btn. 61.
Armed Recon Btns. 1,3,10,59,90,164,220,999.
Panzerjager Btns. 33,39,90,190,334,605,999,52 thru 392.
Motorized Panzerjager Btns. 4,37,38,43,50,53,90,160,228.
Mountain Anti-tank (Gebirgspanzerjager) Btns. 47,94,95.
__________________________________________________
Color is: Grass Green.

Motorcycle Recon Btns. 2,8,15,55,59,64.
Motor Rifle Rgmts. 2,8,10,11,13,14,28,103,104,106,110,111,155,304.
Mechanized Panzergrenadier Rgmts. 1,69,86,104,113,115,125,155,200,361,382,433.
__________________________________________________
Color is: Light Green.

Light Infantry Div Staffs. 90,101.
""""""in Africk Staffs. 90,164.
Light Inf Rgmts. 200,361.
__________________________________________________
Combat Troops--Artillerie:

Color is: Red.

Artillerie Rgmts. 33,75,155,220,334,999,83 thru 670.
Arty Btns. 361,653,654,661,668,670.
Reserve Arty Btns. 10,96.
Motorized Arty Rgmts. 4,33,74,80,102,116,119,148,160,190.
Gebirgsarty Rgmts. 79,94,95,118.
Panzerarty Rgmts. 33,73,90,155.
Assault Gun (Sturmgeschutz) Btns. 184,190,191.
Army Anti-Aircraft Btns. 299,302.
--------------------------------------------------
Neberwerfer Btn 9. ---Bordeaux Red.
__________________________________________________
Combat Troops--Pioneers:

Color is: Black.

Pioneer Btns. 5,71 thru 704, 220,334,900,999.
Reserve Pi Btns. 46,86.
Pi Kompanies. 704,713,714,717,718, (Rhodes).
Gebirgspioneer Btns. 54,91,94,95.
Panzerpioneer (Armored Engineer) Btns. 13,33,37,38,49,59,86,89,200,209,220.
--------------------------------------------------
Bau Pi Btn. 85 Color is Light Brown.

Combat Troops--Signals:
Color is: Lemon-Yellow.

Signals Btns. 5,334,999,71 thru 392.
Signals Kps. 704,713,714,717,718 (Rhodes).
Reserve Signals Kp. 1087.
Gebirgenachrichten Btns. 54,91,94,95.
Armored Signals (PanzerNachtrichten) Btns. 4,37,38,77,78,84,85,90,190,200,220,341.

Color is: Yellow-Grey.
Propaganda Kps. Afrika,690,698,
Propagands Btn. Sudost.
Supply Troops:

Color is: Cornflower Blue.

Div Supply. 5,46 thru 887, 190,220,334,999.
Gebirgs Div Supply. 54,91,94,95.
Mot Div Supply. 4,61,66,82,85,160.
Armored Div Supply. 59,60,81.
Supply Btn, 533.
Mot Transport (Kraftwagon) Kps. 33 thru 999 and 4 thru 887.

Again thanks C Evans.

[derka]

copperbrown is IMHO one of the most complicated (and interesting) colour of waffenfarbe in Heer,
because linked with pink, gold yellow, meadow green and even lemmon yellow regulations and changes from 1936 to marsh 1943,
+ changes in KStN and missions throught the conflict, reflected by gothic "A" and "K" letters and units numbers used on shoulder straps...
my poor english doesn't allow me to try to explain it in details.
derka

[jacquesf]

copperbrown is IMHO one of the most complicated (and interesting) colour of waffenfarbe in Heer,
because linked with pink, gold yellow, meadow green and even lemmon yellow regulations and changes from 1936 to marsh 1943,
+ changes in KStN and missions throught the conflict, reflected by gothic "A" and "K" letters and units numbers used on shoulder straps...
my poor english doesn't allow me to try to explain it in details.
derka

You are 100% right it really is complicated. The list provided by Tim show quite a few different colors linked to motorcycle troops. There is also a lot of DAK Brown insignia for sale , all described as African krad troops, while it seems it should be Bau. What intriques me is the difference between the yellow braun and reddish brown. Are they both suppose to be kupfer braun??? Jacques

[derka]

You are 100% right it really is complicated. The list provided by Tim show quite a few different colors linked to motorcycle troops. There is also a lot of DAK Brown insignia for sale , all described as African krad troops, while it seems it should be Bau. What intriques me is the difference between the yellow braun and reddish brown. Are they both suppose to be kupfer braun??? Jacques

re,
Jacques, i might suggest, to avoid misunderstanding, to use the official terminology about colours identification for waffenfarben.
IMHO, even very salty and faded, it is not possible to confuse gold yellow/goldgelb with copperbrown/kupferbraun.
but it is sometimes more difficult to compare brown/braun and copperbrown/kupferbraun, and in some rare case, with pink/rosa.
we shall not forgot that in each piping colour existed some variations of shade, if we take for reference mint items for compazizon.
btw, are you talking of this kind of piping colour when you point DAK krad insignias for sale (pic borrowed to saeseetin, member of a french forum) ?



derka

[galizien41]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=243289

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=296035

i also have two threads on it...

[jacquesf]

"IMHO, even very salty and faded, it is not possible to confuse gold yellow/goldgelb with copperbrown/kupferbraun."

I am not reffering to gold yellow/goldgelb. I am refering to the two shades of copperbrown/kupferbraun. One has a yellow tone and the other has a red tone as is clear from John's example and your DAK version. Did they both represent the same unit??? The three colors are nicely compared in Galiziens thread.

Yes, that is the color (brown with red tone) that I am referring to that is advertised as DAK krad. Jacques

[derka]

re,

thanks for the precision/goldgelb, Jacques.
so imo, the correct colour for krad. is what you call brown with red tone.
here is an example, unworn, natural light :



derka

[vizenz]

Interesting discussion. I think you can't draw a line between the different shades of brown and say: this was for Kradschützen - this was for Bautruppen and so on. This isn't impossible for blue and green colours, so IMO for brown colours too.

I have only 2 brown boards in my collection:

- The first one is a early Reichswehr pattern moleskin board for an Unteroffizier in 5.Nachrichtenabteilung

- The second one is a M40 Feldwebel for Kradschützen units.

All the best,
Andreas

[Fred Green]

Brown

Greetings Vizenz,

I believe you are correct. Browns come in all sorts of shades. I think that the best we can do is to sort of lump them together for a certain branch.

Light brown was also an early signal color prior to yellow being used,as Vizenz shows us here.

Fred

[lieproo]

Greetings Vizenz,

I believe you are correct. Browns come in all sorts of shades. I think that the best we can do is to sort of lump them together for a certain branch.

Light brown was also an early signal color prior to yellow being used,as Vizenz shows us here.

Fred

THE PIPING COLOR FOR PRE 1936 SIGNAL WAS BROWN , LIGHT BROWN PIPING WAS FOR CONSTRUCTION UNITS AFTER 1940 .