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**sturmbannfuhrer** · 04-20-2009, 01:55 AM

Hi Chris, no one has answered so I thought I'd have a go.

I would say that the PRIVAT grade may not have been held in "shop" stock to the levels as the lower range caps in most sales outlets, so would have been special order from the factory to avoid having to hold a more expensive cap in stock.

From the shortage of readily available examples of the PRIVAT klasse cap today, I would say that the PRIVAT grade was manufactured in lesser quantities in relation to the other grades, thus giving the special order status a lot of credance.

I only own one PRIVAT, a size 60 Artillery Officer, a real dreamboat

One thing I will say about the PRIVAT, I have only ever seen them with the STIRNSCHUTZ system fitted, with grommet. I believe the PRIVAT klasse included the STIRNSCHUTZ system as a part of the grade, instead of being an option as it was on the 140, STANDARD and EXTRA klasse caps.

J T

**J. Hahn** · 04-20-2009, 03:41 AM

I've seen Privat marked visors from 43 and onward with no ventilation grommet. But they all had the "blank" EREL logo under the sweat shield. I've often wondered if these are really Privat grade.

**solo** · 04-20-2009, 06:02 AM

Hi to all ,as almost of you know,i collect expecially erel's.I have some Privat in my collection from many branches ,many differ from the standard privat. I have a LW officer middle late with no grommet (non treated pastboard), a off. rural police no grommet middle late(non treated), trassmission off. middle war with grommet(teated pastboard) and so on,but all with STIRNSCHUTZ system .Instead I have many STANDARD and EXTRA with a combination of 1 grommet,2 grommets(police) more or less padded,some are better or same a classic Privat.
My opinion is you can order a STNDARD or EXTRA with all combination ,I don't think they are standard in stock shop.Instead I think more easy to find a PRIVAT in the stoks because the differences from the lower and higher where very little,yes for sure only the great shops probably have the top production of erel in their stores.
Carlo

**IR 529** · 04-20-2009, 02:01 PM

Maybe I missunderstand the question, but PRIVAT Erels are for shure one of the quality grads, because that´s the promotion statement

Attached Files

EREL 1938.jpg (124.6 KB, 429 views)

**Gerard/Relic Hunter** · 04-20-2009, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by stonemint View Post

Gents:

Out of curiousity, does anyone else believe that the "Privat" grade was not
a custom-order option? Most of the references claim that it was a custom-order, but I have yet to see anything in 30 years to back that up. IMHO, it was simply just one more level above "Extra", and really only represented that more padding was used (if that).

If it was truly a custom-order, private-purchase options, why do Heeres Kleiderkasse caps also come in the Privat grade?

Personally, to me it seems to be more of just a marketing gimmick--but I guess the only way will we ever find out is if the Erel business records come to light. And like-wise, there really seems to be no difference between a Privat and Extra in terms of quality, with the exception of the stamp and the color of the lining--maybe just a hint of extra padding, but late-war Privats were hardly padded at all.

I was going to do a poll on this, but I would just rather hear other opinions on this topic--pro or con.

stoney, I think it was just as much a gimmik as that silly vent grommet. Like that little air hole and the tiny little holes in the sweatband, were actually going to cool you down, pleeease. Anyway, most if not all army kleiderkasse cap I have seen were Extra, while, I think, most Luft Kleiderkasse (Verkaufsabteilung for those of you in Rio Linda) caps were Privat, so go figure.

**DonC** · 04-20-2009, 03:04 PM

I never felt that Privats were necessarily special order other than in the sense that there were probably far fewer produced than the Standard or Extra versions, and perhaps you might have to wait for one to come into stock at a smaller dealer's (some things never change

).

Don

**SgtB** · 04-20-2009, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by stonemint View Post

Personally, to me it seems to be more of just a marketing gimmick . . .

That's been my belief for some time too. In fact I don't believe that there is a lick of difference between any of the grades at all. I've seen every type of material, from gabardine to doeskin on all of them. I've seen the grommet in all of them. I've seen the green or gold lining in all of them. I've never noticed any real differences in padding (consistently) in any of them. And I've seen all of them (except maybe a Privat) without the floating sweatband. But I'd bet they exist too.

IMO If you paid more for a Privat than a Standard, you were just throwing your money away in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling. But then that was certainly worth something, as 'visor cap envy' definitely peaked ( pun intended

) during the TR years.

**NTZ** · 04-20-2009, 06:02 PM

I am pretty sure it was a good marketing gimmick. The only thing I do know is I never seen a Privat without the Stirnschutz. I have seen Standards that blow away most Privat’s in quality and the other way around. Once you get into the 42+ years you don’t see many if any Standards and I could not tell any difference from an Extra or Privat in quality.

**stonemint** · 04-20-2009, 08:41 PM

Good to know I am not the only one with my opinion. The reason it came up was because someone was selling a friend of mine a Privat with the old
"its higher quality and was a special-order" line, and I told him that the seller is just trying to soak him just like Erel did to its customers back in the 40's.

I like Erels too, but I always thought the "Privat" grade was overrated (but those pale-green linings sure are purdy).

Well, NTZ, now to search for the elusive Privat with a standard s/b....

**NTZ** · 04-20-2009, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by stonemint View Post

Well, NTZ, now to search for the elusive Privat with a standard s/b....

Good luck, out of 100's I never seen a one. At least not one that has not been messed with.

**sturmbannfuhrer** · 04-21-2009, 03:02 AM

The Stirnshutz system was the patented cushion system trapping air in the front of the cap to relieve forehead pressure on the wearer.

To achive this, the system had the vent hole to allow air into the cap to create the air cushion, I don't think the air grommet was their to cool the head.

For those of you who have a triple erel, look at the card label, the vented cockarde is stated on it as part of the Stirnshutz system.

I am a believer in the fact that if you have a Stirnshutz Erel it should have a grommet fitted as it was part of the system.

I have 14 Erel's all with this system and all have the grommet.

I would not buy a Stirnshutz marked Erel without a grommet as the system required it.

J T

**solo** · 04-21-2009, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by sturmbannfuhrer View Post

..

I am a believer in the fact that if you have a Stirnshutz Erel it should have a grommet fitted as it was part of the system.

I have 14 Erel's all with this system and all have the grommet.

I would not buy a Stirnshutz marked Erel without a grommet as the system required it.

J T

Sorry JT ,but I'm not with you.
I've some Stirnshutz erel without the grommet,and I've seen a lot made with no grommet,and all are and were original.
Carlo

**sturmbannfuhrer** · 04-21-2009, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by solo View Post

Sorry JT ,but I'm not with you.
I've some Stirnshutz erel without the grommet,and I've seen a lot made with no grommet,and all are and were original.
Carlo

That is okay Carlo.

See below the Stirnshutz advert label in close up, noting that "Stirnshutz" is a registered trade mark and constitutes a full system!

Stirnshutz roughly translated means "front protection"

diese mutze bietet ausserdem "in addition this mutze offers"

wirksame ventilation "effective ventilation"

durch spezial kokarde oder abzeichen "by specially kokarde or badges"

durchschwitzen "through-sweat"

des mutzenbundes wird verhindert "the mutzen bundes one prevents"

This label gives me food for thought when I contemplate buying an Erel with a Stirnshutz sweatband and is the reason I made my post. The grommet is actually an integral part of Stirnshutz and is required to help the system function.

It is just my opinion though, in conjunction with the original manufacturing companies advert label, which a lot of collectors have not actually seen.

regards

J T

Attached Files

erelmintinfantrytriple4.JPG (65.1 KB, 361 views)

**solo** · 04-21-2009, 05:43 AM

Hi JT,I hope you will understood my opinion in my bad english.
In a side you are right in another you are wrong.You are right for the triple erel.The triple erel are pre war or are made till june 1940,aftet this date no triple erel exist.After when erel got the patent for the stirnshutz you can find the hat fitted with stirnshutz whithout the grommet,this is to the end war poduction.
All the erel I've seen are how I told you ,if you are able find a triple erel with the printed in the sweatband patent.
So you are wright only for the hats made till june 1940 ,after the ventilation sistem was not mandatory in a stirnshutz erel.
I hope my english is enough good

Ciao
Carlo

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