Foerster and Barth badges (L/21)

[Lorenzo Brown]

In an attempt to identify Foerster and Barth badges, here are some pictures of what I would consider to be authentic F&B pieces. I have just added David Lawrence's Flak badge example because I think it shares attributes of the other badges, although the pin is not marked.

In the following thread, I have posted examples of other "coke bottle pin badges" that have are speculated to be made by Foerster and Barth.

Note the differences.:
In the first posting, the F&B pins are:
1) Buntmetal
2) Smooth "bending" crimp at the top of the pin
3) Slightly rounded in design, most noticeably at the center of the pin.
4) Typically pin-marked "L/21" in a rectangular cartouche incuse/relief.

Comments or opinions?

[Lorenzo Brown]

Here are some "coke-bottle" pin badges that have been attributed to F&B.
Note that"
1) Pins are magnetic ( iron based.)
2) Pins are flat with sharp edges...not smooth-rounded
3) Pin "bending" crimp is distinctly sharper and deeper ..

Comments or opinions?

[Kecon]

Hi Lorenzo

Thanks for the lesson and great visual aide. I just dug out my
unmarked AC badge which I thought was a F&B. I always assumed
the pin was brass as It appears. Well what you know, the magnet
stuck right to it. Never too old to learn!

Best regards
Ken

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Ken. Just to clarify....I am not saying that it isn't an F&B. Just noting the differences and opening it up for discussion.

Interesting to note that yours also has the smoother crimp at the head of the pin more similar to the buntmetal pins than to other magnetic pins I show.

[Frank Heukemes]

Here is another Forster & Barth award that falls into the first category, marked Buntmetall pin.
To make life easier I also assumed the second category to be Foerster & Barth, but it is true that there are minimal differences. I don´t know if this should alarm us to look for even another maker with that pin, since the pin shape is very specific.
My late war KVK however seems to prove that F&B used the marked Buntmetall pins until later in the war, so there is no logical break like early war = Buntmetall marked pin, late war = magnetic unmarked pin.

Cheers, Frank

[Kecon]

Lorenzo

I have never understood that foreign term, buntmetal. I hate
that term and it tells nothing. In regards to buntmetal pin, are
you referring to brass, tombak or what? I need help in understanding
just what the term means.

Best regards
Ken

[Lorenzo Brown]

Sorry, Ken...that question seems to never get answered satisfactorily.

Here is what I think. I believe that "Buntmetall" technically means "non-ferrous" metal. That would comprise all metals other than those containing iron. This would include such metals as copper, brass, aluminum, zinc, et al.

However, in collecting we usually give separate and distinct categories to zinc, aluminum and cupal badges. As a further note, badges that clearly contain brass are often referred to as "tombak", even though they also belong in the "buntmetal" category.

So in its broadest sense, "Buntmetal" would be everything EXCEPT iron-based metals.

In its narrowest, "collector" sense, Buntmetal is everything EXCEPT iron, zinc, aluminum, cupal and tombak.

Hope this helps.

[Frank Heukemes]

In the "foreign land", Buntmetall also applies to Tombak. E.g. if one looks at Detlev´s offerings, Tombak flight badges are always just referred to as Buntmetall.

Cheers, Frank