Celleon discussion with closeups

[Norm F]

Hi All,
Despite searching on the internet, various dictionaries, and through Angolia's Die Kriegsmarine volumes 1-3, I've been unable to find any clear definition or discussion of the true nature of "Celleon", despite the fact that the term is used daily to describe the shiny thread used in Wehrmacht insignia, mostly for officers. My best assumptions from what I can find is that Celleon is a thread made from a semi-synthetic cellulose derivative, as is Rayon and as is good old cellophane wrap. I found Michael Holverson's great website at http://www.themarshalsbaton.com/Framepage.htm which includes a plethora of pictures of officers' insignia including this eagle with a manufacturer's description in the background with the term "Cellophan":


Recently I purchased my first example of a mint eagle that I believe is Celleon and took some closeup pics to characterise the thread. I wanted to post them and get comments from others about their ideas on the nature of Celleon and whether this is the typical appearance.

First the regular pics and then the closeups will follow:

[Norm F]

closeup 1

first closeup

[Norm F]

closeup 2

2nd closeup

[Norm F]

closeup 3

even closer

[Norm F]

Final closeup

And finally this shot. Notice that up close it appears to be a thread with a core of yellow fibres, surrounded by a flat strip-like cellophane winding. This really surprised me, and is certainly different from my Unteroffiziere eagle posted earlier which had a more cloth-like yellow-gold thread that wasn't so shiny as this.
Do other's have similar "Celleon" examples, or has my first foray into the field shown up a modern replica (although the construction from the back sure looked real to me).
Regards
---Norm

[GFM]

Your eagle looks fine to me, Norm. I've encountered a couple of different celleons.....there is a late war version that looks very shiny, close to bullion. If you read Angolia's description carefully, he notes that there were variations of dull and brite celleon. There have also been some modern copies of it made too. Usually in the hand embroidered stuff you can always tell originals because they are so tightly woven.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

The origins of Celleon. I read about wood pulp being the source of this material a while back and the stuff has been a source of great facination to me ever since.

There is an interesting article in http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...766717,00.html

This covers ersatatz materials cooked up by the Germans and includes the following:

"The use of cellulose for fodder has increased to 500,000 tons per year so that an increase of 40% in wood-pulp production is needed to supply the paper and rayon industries".

Which does show that the origins of celleon are with wood pulp, which I suppose explains why the Germans had the Forestry mob to protect their valuable wood stocks.

[phild]

A very worthwhile and virtually neglected subject among collectors. Thanks for starting it.


Most seem to associate the use of cellon with yellow KM and General officers insignia variations......but what does anyone know about cellon use for simulated silver or white metal insignia?


Most of us old beaten down guys remember the collecting in the 60s and 70s when the scientific test for original flatwire insignia was to touch it with your tounge to see if it was cold!!!!!!!!! I'm not kidding.

What this "test" did was tell if the insignia was made from actual metal wrapped thread or not....that's all ...as cellon would not be cold...but could still be original.........In other words much "knowledge" was flawed then just as it still is now!

I would love to see some photos of white/silver cellon.....it was used.

[Johnny R]

A very worthwhile and virtually neglected subject among collectors. Thanks for starting it.


Most seem to associate the use of cellon with yellow KM and General officers insignia variations......but what does anyone know about cellon use for simulated silver or white metal insignia?


Most of us old beaten down guys remember the collecting in the 60s and 70s when the scientific test for original flatwire insignia was to touch it with your tounge to see if it was cold!!!!!!!!! I'm not kidding.

What this "test" did was tell if the insignia was made from actual metal wrapped thread or not....that's all ...as cellon would not be cold...but could still be original.........In other words much "knowledge" was flawed then just as it still is now!

I would love to see some photos of white/silver cellon.....it was used.

That test works well for detecting ice as well. I love Gun show myths. I also am always entertained by people smelling insignia and uniforms to see if they are "real" and "smell like battle smoke"

I would think there may be cellon straps for officer visors as well?

[phild]

I want to ask another question that I almost implied in my former post on this subject: does anyone know if cellon (any color) was used in woven insignia to simulate flatwire or was it ONLY used in hand embroidered insignia?

[Johnny R]

Here are some more examples from a 1943 dated Generalmajor tunic.

[Johnny R]

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[Johnny R]

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[Johnny R]

Eagle Close

[Johnny R]

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