WWI Luger Stamped 1917 1920 Erfurt?

[army_inc]

Hey Guys,
I ran across a bunch of WWII German items. I'm in no way as experienced as you guys here and I figured you guys could be a wealth of information.

The pictures have all the information that is needed and if you need more pictures to authenticate it, please let me know and I will take them. There is the matching paperwork for these items as well. I know what some of these items are worth regularly... but add in the paperwork and I have NO CLUE as to what this is worth. How much is this grouping worth?


http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...view=slideshow

I am new to this forum and photobucket so the pictures are mixed up. I am not sure how to arrange them in an organized manner. If anyone knows how to reorganize them on photobucket, that would help too!



Any help would be great as I try to collect WWII Aviator wings and not really German items. So I have no idea what this is worth with the paper. Can anyone help? Thanks!


-Dave

[ADifferentDan]

I am getting the PhotoBucket main page when I click your link.

[army_inc]

Broken Link...

Sorry about that guys. I fixed the link and it should work now.

[phild]

It looks like a nice 1917/1920 double date police Luger. The holster is not police and was either changed out by the vet or maybe by the Germans during the war as weapons and sometimes even policemen got moved around into other duties and types of units!

The serial number on the left side receiver looks like it may have 5 characters? If so, I've never seen that on an Erfurt or other military P.08.

Can you check the frame number between the trigger guard and the barrel (on the bottom) and see how many numbers that are stamped for the serial and what the letter is below them?

[phild]

To answer your other question, how much with the capture paper and as a grouping:

I don't think that the items would sell for near as much together as they would individually. I don't consider this as a group per se as it has no real relation to each other only the same guy who brought it back.

I would keep the "make some sense" items together like the Luger-holster-mags, medals with cases and belts with buckles...etc..

The capture papers do more for some people than they do me, so I'm not the best to ask! I generally care little for them and don't pay extra. I guess I was "buy the item and not the story" when "buy the item not the story wasn't cool"!

[army_inc]

Hey Phil, I'm more of a buy the item not the story kind of guy too. I also know that sometimes the paperwork will be worth it's weight in gold. I have never run into a grouping with the paperwork though. I agree with you again that this is more of a grouping a guy brought back and not a grouping that belonged to one soldier. If the item happens to come with a story, great! If it doesn't, no biggie.

[army_inc]

Can you check the frame number between the trigger guard and the barrel (on the bottom) and see how many numbers that are stamped for the serial and what the letter is below them?

The frame number is the same as the rest of the pistol (15668) and the letter looks like an italicized W or a worn down M. I'm not really sure which one it is.

[phild]

The frame number is the same as the rest of the pistol (15668) and the letter looks like an italicized W or a worn down M. I'm not really sure which one it is.

Dave, I'm pulling your leg a bit about "not buying the story"...I love the stories! The paper is a nice bonus, but I seriously don't get much more from it (ever) than the guy's name and unit...and that I would always have anyway when I got the items right from the vet....so no one 20 years down the road wants to believe me without the capture document...well it is their loss!

As for the Luger...I think that the 1 in the number was added during the 1920s/30s. Maybe you can tell by the slight alinghment differences as you have the gun in front of you and I don't. I have never heard of this before and I have no idea why...but I have no doubt that it is period done on this Luger. I will check my copy of Weimar Lugers by Still and see if a can find you more information.

It is all a very excellent "group", you should be very happy with that find.

[Douglas Jr.]

This serial number is puzzling me...
An Erfurt Luger would never have a five digit serial number, as far as I know. They were all numbered in ten thousand blocks, divided by suffixes (a, b, c, etc...). This serial is more from a Commercial series - but Erfurt never made a commercial Luger.

Can we see the pictures of the front part of the frame (just above the trigger guard) and the barrel (below, near the receiver)?

Thanks,

Douglas.

[army_inc]

This serial number is puzzling me...
An Erfurt Luger would never have a five digit serial number, as far as I know. They were all numbered in ten thousand blocks, divided by suffixes (a, b, c, etc...). This serial is more from a Commercial series - but Erfurt never made a commercial Luger.

Can we see the pictures of the front part of the frame (just above the trigger guard) and the barrel (below, near the receiver)?

Yes I can have pictures of the front part of the frame and the bottom of the barrel. I will have them up tomorrow. This luger seems to be more interesting that I thought!

[army_inc]

Here is a picture that was requested. It seems to me that maybe the number 1 on the serial number was added as it seems to be stamped deeper and looks to be a different style of number than the other 4. Let me know what you guys think. Below is a link to see the picture.
http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...view=slideshow

[phild]

The 1 was added by the Germans in the 20s-30s as part of the rework/re-finish that the pistol went thru. The entire frame number may have been restamped as well....hard for me say 100% based on the photos but there may be a ghost number under the frame number.

Pistol looks to have been nicely period re-blued (slow rust type) and some previous pitting appears to be present UNDER this re-blue...which is typical and correct for such a variation.

The 5 character serial (actually 6 with the suffix) is hard to explain...but I have not yet dug into Still's book addressing these.

Police armories could and did perform some expert and "odd" (at times) re-work of these Lugers.

You certainly have a rare variation and in this case the capture paper may really come in handy as a valuable supporting document......it usually does not IMO.

[Douglas Jr.]

I think that the serial number (or part of it) was re-stamped.
Don't know, however, if it was a practice for reworked Police Lugers during Weimar period.

As phild said, if this same number appears in the capture paper, then you have something very interesting in hands. Otherwise, you will have a shooter.

Douglas

[Skookum]

Your Luger is marked to Schutzpolizei Lüneburg. The 1 was most likely added to differentiate from either earlier Police inventory at the time the unit mark was updated, or from military inventory.

The holster could very well have been original to the pistol. Some police units used the military style holsters. There are documented photos of them being worn by police.


RS