Waffen Skull M1/52

[AJ]

Hi
This skull, is the same as shown here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=202517

I have managed to do some better pics of it. The reason why I ask, is because, I got the skull in a trade and I don't collect skulls, so I have no clue what so ever, what to look for.

Best regards
AJ
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[John T]

That is a cupal version, which is aluminum sandwiched between two layers of copper, and then the whole thing is silver plated, and then the whole thing is stamped into shape.....there are a number of things to look for, of which your skull does have, I really do not want to go into too much detail as they will just make the fakes better..if other guys want to elaborate they can, but study your piece and you will see what a correct cupal example looks like, also look at the front wear patterns, the silver has worn down to the copper, and all the way down to the aluminum in areas, while remaining intact on the reverse...something which is very common with these beauties.

If you do not collect these pieces you will have no trouble selling this one as pieces such as this are in great demand by "SS Guys"...

Kindest Regards,

John

[bwanek1]

That is a cupal version, which is aluminum sandwiched between two layers of copper, and then the whole thing is silver plated, and then the whole thing is stamped into shape.....there are a number of things to look for, of which your skull does have, I really do not want to go into too much detail as they will just make the fakes better..if other guys want to elaborate they can, but study your piece and you will see what a correct cupal example looks like, also look at the front wear patterns, the silver has worn down to the copper, and all the way down to the aluminum in areas, while remaining intact on the reverse...something which is very common with these beauties.

If you do not collect these pieces you will have no trouble selling this one as pieces such as this are in great demand by "SS Guys"...

Kindest Regards,

John

Not to be picky, but in the interest of being completely accurate, the die striking actually took place before the finish was applied, whether that finish was a silver wash or matte silver paint.

You are absolutely correct about the fakes getting better all the time--the better ones that is. I have examined a few fakes in the past year which attempted to mimic CupAl using different material. They were quite convincing in photographs but were immediately apparent to be fakes upon hands-on inspection. I have shared some information with other collectors privately about this new breed of fake, but I have been reluctant to post them on the open forum and point out their shortcomings for the exact reason you mention; I don't want to help the fakers get better!

As for this one, I suspect it was originally on an officer's cap. Anyone care to guess why I have that thought? A clue is in John's post above.

[bwanek1]

I just took a closer look at the reverse of this one (which I admit I did not do earlier) and I am being thrown by the maker mark. I have never seen this particular version on a Deschler. Granted, Deschler went through a lot of different dies and there are several well documented variations, but this one is quite strange to me. The numbers (1/52) look more like those used by Deschler on their solid aluminum and flat-backed zinc versions. I have never seen numbers of this style on a CupAl piece. However, what strikes me as most unusual is the letter M. Instead of vertical "legs" this one's angle outward, like an inverted W. Has anyone else seen this before?!

[John T]

Hi Brad:

I have seen the version of the M1/52 where the "M" looks like an upside down "W"...I think I may have sold it to Chris M. a few years back when I had a few variants by this maker...totally fine in my opinion.

John

[bwanek1]

Hi Brad:

I have seen the version of the M1/52 where the "M" looks like an upside down "W"...I think I may have sold it to Chris M. a few years back when I had a few variants by this maker...totally fine in my opinion.

John

It was not a question of originality. I agree that it is certainly original. It is just an issue of rarity. I have never seen this particular variation (and I study SS metal cap insignia a lot), so I simply was asking how many others have come across this specific reverse die before.

[Robin Lumsden]

A very nice original skull.

[SScollector]

Yes John, you sold that one to me.
This marking variation is rarer than the typical M1/52 marking.
I also have one with a slash through the "Z" in the RZM mark, but it is another marking variation altogether and it is also very rare.
There are many M1/52 marking variations. Some had a long slash between the "M1" and the "52" and it can be closer to the right, or left.

Best, Chris

[bwanek1]

Not to hijack this thread, but as long as we are talking about Deschler maker mark variations and Chris mentioned the "long slash," I figure it worth showing two I used to own to illustrate some of the differences in slash size. There are some other differences between the numerals as well. Sadly, both of these now reside in the collections of other forum members.

[SScollector]

Thanks for the pics, Brad! The skull on the right shows the long slash touching the "5". The one on the left shows the long slash in the center
and there was also one in which the long slash touches the "1".
Of course, the entire markings are each a little unique, as they were re cut each time. This would be because the reverse dies wore
quicker than the front dies and they had to make new reverse dies
often, as Deschler produced many skulls.

Best, Chris

[deadmaximgunner]

Deschler skull?

Ive had this m1/52 in my collection since 94, theres no wear hardly at all on the front, seems to be a heavy, frosted silver plate to the front of the skull, and its made out of tombak.
What are the fakes like of these Deschler skulls? does anyone think that this is a good or bad one?