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**eric** · 08-21-2001, 03:25 PM

Richard,
The EK is good and the dealer is great.
These pieces were made for people that could afford them (royalty). I have been slobbering over that piece for a while...

[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: eric ]

**Bruce Simcox** · 08-24-2001, 12:39 AM

Hi Richard,

I would just like to let you know that you have my appreciation for sharing that 'gem' with us.

Way cool. Very nice piece to see.

Thank you.

--------------------

Bruce

**Chris Boonzaier** · 08-24-2001, 10:03 AM

There always has to be a dissenter...
I would not buy it. My sceptics gut feeling would say.... such worn KAG rims and no crack or anything on the centre piece ?
I would take a microscope to the solder line and see that noone has taken an EK, opened the rims and crafted a center piece... and made a fortune.
I dont like the fact that such a special piece has such a simple set of KAG worn rims...
one drop and this pice would be 10 pieces...

2 thumbs down for me on this one. If the centre piece at least had a scratch or two, or a crack.... and man, those rims are worn !!

(some rims are already worn from an overused die... but would you take them for such a special creation ? And i may be way off on this, but I seem to remember Geissler says something about the KAG probably being the royal mint... not exactly the jeweller who would go about making such a special piece..is it ?)

**Chris Boonzaier** · 08-25-2001, 03:41 PM

Any opinions ?

**Rich G** · 08-26-2001, 11:15 AM

I must admit, that I would be wary of buying this piece.

The centre looks immaculate, without a trace of a scratch, and doesn't follow the wear to the frame.

Has anyone ever seen a similar item?

Rich

**Chris Boonzaier** · 08-26-2001, 11:31 AM

The problem is... there are one off original items of all shapes and sorts in all sectors of this hobby. but that does not tell you where and when they were made.

In retrospect... I give it 3 thumbs down.

**Rich G** · 08-26-2001, 01:01 PM

If one were able to verify it as a 100% period piece it would be a very cool item in ones collection though.

I give it a thumbs up for imagination and effort but I wouldn't part with my hard earned sterling for it

But speaking of onyx centers, was Gorings onyx grand cross ever photographed or is it only a rumour?

**Jody** · 08-26-2001, 01:19 PM

Hello,
I saw many years ago a Imperial Onyx centered 1914 1st class EK that was presented to Hitler on his 50th B-Day. That cross had a platinum frame and the Crown, W, and date were raised.

The cross was given to Hitler by leaders of the NPEA.

The cross in question I don't like either. I think Chris summed it up pretty good. The frame has wear and not so much as a crack on the onyx portion of the cross. It does not sing out I AM ORIGINAL to me.
Regards,
Jody

**Doug See** · 08-26-2001, 11:12 PM

In my opinion, it may be a jewelers' fantasy or custom piece, and should be valued as such. I doubt that a "faker" would go to all the trouble to engrave the onyx, take apart a used, worn frame, and reassemble it. It's probably a 1920-30's piece, like so many 1914 EK1's out there. I believe Previtera pictures and onyx centered 1914 in The Iron Time, but with brass or gold crown and date details inlaid on it. It's a gorgeous piece. This one's probably okay as an unusual jeweler variation, but should not be valued as an extreme rarity. Jusat my $00.02

[ 26 August 2001: Message edited by: Doug See ]

**Chris Boonzaier** · 08-27-2001, 11:05 AM

Hi Doug,
The point that gets me, is, if a jeweller did do it... why not with better frames.

A jeweller back then would have had to...

1) taken an old worn cross, opened the frames, put a special onyx engraved centre in there, resoldered it... and sold it for a good price.

A faker would have to

2)taken an old worn cross, opened the frames, put a special onyx engraved centre in there, resoldered it... and sold it for over a months wage for a regular working guy.

Whose getting the better deal there ?
Once again, I cannot think of any explanation as to whey the conditions of the rim and centre are so different.

If I had ordered this from a jeweller for my parade uniform, and he gave me the great centre in some clapped out old frames..well...

**Doug See** · 08-27-2001, 03:44 PM

Chris,
I know what you are saying, but I don't see the wear on the frame in the photos on my screen (I am looking at the third phot close-up). If there is wear, it could be normal, since onyx does not wear like silver and could be in perfect condition even if the award was worn. I guess we'll never know.
Doug

[ 27 August 2001: Message edited by: Doug See ]

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