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    #1

    Godet 1914 EK1 or ........

    Hi,

    I've linked an obverse scan of 4 crosses. Which, if any/all, was/were made by Godet? Should be easy

    Regards
    Mike



    Here's a link to a larger image for beading detail if required;

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~datumge...-obv-x400a.jpg
    Regards
    Mike

    Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

    If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!
    Tags: None
    #2
    I think that 1 and 2 are Godets. I am more certain of 2 than 1 but I think
    that both probably are OK. Seeing the shape or style of pins would be the
    kicker. Numbers 3 and 4 have somewhat similar beading but the corner
    charactoristics are much less defined. Also the 9s in the dates are noticably different plus the crowns are somewhat different. Without seeing the backs (pins, catches ect) I would say that these are probably not Godets but I would not say that with 100% certainty.
    These corner charactoristics plus the oval backing plate are what leads to believe that Davids cross is a Godet.
    Here is a close up of a Godet that shows the distinct corner pattern.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      Hi Greg,

      There's a link at the bottom of Post#1 with bigger scans. Let me know if you need bigger again.

      Regards
      Mike
      Regards
      Mike

      Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

      If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

      Comment

        #4
        I saw the link and used it before I posted my reply. My answer is still
        the same.

        Comment

          #5
          Hi Greg,

          No worries - just making sure.

          I'll give it another day before posting the reverse. Maybe Tony or Marshall (and any others) want to "play"?

          Regards
          Mike
          Regards
          Mike

          Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

          If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

          Comment

            #6
            Hi Mike

            Agree - no's 1 & 2 look decidedly 'Godet' - but as this is obviously a trick question .. I'll say

            #2 is 100% textbook Godet.

            #1 is tough - the core looks Godet type - but as the frame matches #4 (which I beleive has a Wagner core), I'll say it's a Wagner... as are the rest.

            How wrong am I??...

            Marshall
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #7
              I believe all four are Godets, from the inner beading. Charlie

              Comment

                #8
                Hi,

                As Marshall correctly surmised, there was a trick question involved. The idea was to show that Godet used two core types, which were both shared by at least one other maker.

                Marshall, great pick-up on the beading flaw on #s 1 & 4. I hadn't fully noticed it myself! I've checked other examples from this maker and it seems to be a progressive fault as I have a couple of examples which do not show it. Here's the rub though - #2 & #3 are slightly different in the same area!

                OK, here's the reverse. Not numbered, but nothing was "shuffled" - the crosses are in the same positions.
                .
                .
                .

                .
                .
                .
                .

                More of Godet interest in my next post.

                Regards
                Mike
                Last edited by Mike Kenny; 10-06-2006, 07:50 PM.
                Regards
                Mike

                Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                Comment

                  #9
                  Now, here's an obverse scan of 8 crosses. All share exactly the same core. Some of them appear to share frames as well. The top two should be apparent, but two others are from other makers. Since making this scan, I've found another maker marked example which also shares the same core. Notice that there are some flat crosses as well.
                  .

                  .
                  .
                  Don't you just love Imperial EKs - they drive you crazy sometimes

                  Regards
                  Mike
                  Regards
                  Mike

                  Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                  If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                  Comment

                    #10
                    WOW-very interesting.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Very interesting Mike.... good work.

                      Have you have seen further examples of Godet marked hardware and frames in conjunction with this 2nd type core.. or is this cross (#3) the only example to date?


                      Marshall

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hi Marshall,

                        Unless the pics are mixed up, the zweihaken Godet on P108 in Geissler appears to be the same type as my #3.

                        Regards
                        Mike
                        Regards
                        Mike

                        Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                        If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Here are another pair for your consideration. These belong to Tiger1.
                          My scans of his pictures are not the best BUT the frame beading and
                          cores are identical.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            The pinback is a "G" marked Godet. The screwback is unmarked BUT as
                            mentioned earlier--It is identical to the pinback. A unmarked screwback
                            Godet.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi Greg,

                              I can't see the beading in the critical area (Post#6) so I'll take your word that the two crosses are identical. I still disagree with the statement that the nice unmarked oval-shaped screwback is a Godet. In the absence of a maker mark, there is ONLY a good POSSIBILITY that it is a Godet - that is my point, it is not definitive.

                              From what I've seen in Imperial EK1s, if an unmarked example looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a FISH. Imo there was simply too much component sharing and/or co-manufacturing going on and we do not understand it anywhere near enough to make definitive statements in most cases.

                              The exceptions are when reverse hardware is fairly characteristic and matches known maker marked examples with the same caracteristic hardware - Godets (ONLY with hardware as per crosses 2 or 3 above), Meybauers and some WS examples spring to mind.

                              Fyi, in the scan of 8 crosses above, the one third row down on the left is an incuse-relief "WS" and the single on the fourth row is an "FR" variant. I also have a "We" (not pictured) which shares the same core.

                              Regards
                              Mike
                              Regards
                              Mike

                              Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                              If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                              Comment

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