unknown knights cross winner?

[frankandfrank]

hello,
does anybody know these knights cross winners?

[Denis]

Hello
A big issue ! I try to summarize the fact
From Left to Right :
unID 1 :
Unteroffizier, KC Holder, Tank Destruction Badge (insituted on 09/03/1942), no DK at that time (i.e. when the photo was taken)
unID 2 :
Felwebel (at least) or Oberfeldwebel, KC Holder, no DK at that time, Feldherrnhalle cuff title (as far as I can see)
unID 3 :
Oberfeldwebel, OL recipient, coming from a Jäger/Gebirgsjäger unit due to his cap, no DK at that time
unID 4 :
Felwebel (at least) or Oberfeldwebel, KC Holder, no DK at that time

First of all, I would say that this photo was taken in early 1943 : due to the following facts
- most (all ?) soldiers wears early tunics (M36, M40)
- all enlisted men wear overseas caps rather than M43 caps
- all NCO wears schirmutzen
- the Tank Destruction Badge was created on March, 1942
- the first Heer NCO was awarded the Ol on 25/01/1943 (Primozic)

In theory, the easiest soldier to identify should be the Eichenlaubträger :
A rapid count among the OL recipients gives us 27 soldiers who were awarded the oakleaves under the rank of Leutnant. Our guy must be among those following ones :
ARNDT FRITZ
BOIGK HEINRICH
BONK GEORG
BORCHARDT HELMUTH
BRAUN CHRISTIAN
HRUSTAK MARTIN
KAMINSKY EMIL
KARL JOSEF
KERSCHER ALBERT
KOCH WILLI
KOHNZ BRUNO
KRUSE ERNST
KUNERT GERHARD
KUTSCHKAU ERNST
MATERN ALFRED
MÖSE WALTER
PILARSKI HUBERT
PRIMOZIC HUGO
REUTER BENNO
RIETSCHER GEORG
SCHLEE RUDOLF
SCHREIBER JOSEF
SCHWERDFEGER JOHANN
STRIPPEL HANS
STÜHMER GUSTAV
SÜSS WALTER
WEGERER FERDINAND

We can exclude the posthumous awardees who are :
KUNERT GERHARD
STÜHMER GUSTAV

25 ones remain.

Among those, if we take into account the only ones who were awarded the KC between January, 1944, 6 ones remain who are :
KOHNZ BRUNO
KRUSE ERNST
PRIMOZIC HUGO
RIETSCHER GEORG
SCHLEE RUDOLF
SCHREIBER JOSEF

Among those, we might exclude all guys who were awarded the DKiG before the KC or the EL since we can suppose that the unknown OL recipient would have wore the DK if he had been awarded it : 2 soldiers might be excluded (I know, the possiblity exists that the unknown guy was a DK holder and NOT wore it !!!)
KOHNZ BRUNO
DKiG : 014/09/1942
RK : 17/12/1942

KRUSE ERNST
DKiG : 19/01/1942
RK : 06/10/1942

AMong the 4 llast ones, only ones belongs to a Jäger/Gebirsjäger unit : this is Rudolf Schlee
The problem with my assumption list is that I don't find much resemblance between Schlee and unID 3 !!!

To be Continued

Regards
Denis

[Denis]

Sorry, I didn't want to lost all I had typed

Here are some photos of various soldiers who might be unID 3
First of all Rudolf Schlee since he might be the soldier we are looking for :

Note that Schlee's ribbon bar on the following photo is not similar with the one worn by unID3 (don't like that !!)

[Denis]

2 photos of Bruno Kohnz
one from Film Foto Verlag

[Denis]

2nd from Kohnz
from Hoffmann

[Denis]

For your interest, the following photos depict soldiers from the "short list" (last 6 ones)

Ernst Kruse from Film Foto Verlag

[Denis]

Hugo Primozic from Film Foto Verlag (just to show you that there is really no resemblance with unID 3 ). Besides, Primozic belonged to a Sturmgeschutz unit and he is always shown wearing a Fieldgrey wrapper.

[Denis]

Georg Rietscher from Film Foto Verlag

[Denis]

Josef Schreiber from Film Foto Verlag (thanks to this publisher BTW )

[Denis]

and a last one from Schreiber depicting him hatless from Hoffmann

[Denis]

Regarding the 3 other KC holders
unID 2 DOESN't wear a Feldherrnhalle cuff title since the FHH was worn on the left sleeve. Sorry for that !
So I suppose this cuff title would be a GD one. Am I right ?
If so, it might ease the identification of unID 2.
I wait for members's opinions about that latter point to continue my investigation.
BTW, i would also like to have comments about my previous assumptions related to the identification of the OL recipient.
Regards
Denis

[Ian Jewison]

Thats a nice photo to see! Is there a date on this photo at all? I agree with Denis that this was takein 1943.
I can not make out if they are wearing "W" for Wach Bataillon “Großdeutschland” of the actuall "GD "cyphers?

The RKT second from left is Obfw. Otto Brakat:


Ritterkreuz Verliehen als Unteroffizier und Gruppenführer (as the first and only N.C.O of 1 Kavallerie Division!)

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

I think the EL is Rudolf Schlee as he served with Wach Bataillon “Großdeutschland” as an Obfw. and a Lt. (still there as a Kp. commander 20 Juli 1944!)
So this photo is obviously members of Wach Bataillon “Großdeutschland” having a smoke break, possibly 3 Kompanie as that is where Herr Brakat served!!!
Two down two to go!!!

/Ian

[Denis]

Hi
Good job Ian !!
The first one (Uffz. or unID 1) is not easy to identify :
166 KC holders are counted and would be able to fit with him :
Heer member
Being awarded the KC as an Uffz. (or rank below)
Not belonging to a Jäger/Gebirsjäger unit
As for unID 4, it is curious to see that he doesn't wear the NCO tresse around his collar and his peaked cap has no chinstrap. Would he be a candidate officer (fahnrich or oberfahnrich) ? This latter fact might ease the identification.
Denis

[Ian Jewison]

Hi Denis,
I noticed that also with RKT 4...couldn't make out if they were Offizieren collar tabs or not.......but I think they are so that would make him an Oberfähnrich.
Still quite hard though as these men won there awards prior to this engagement.....
I am sure I do recognise his face though!!

/Ian