Richard Simm & Söhne (RSS) HSF badge

[John R.]

Bringing this one back since we seem to be discussing RSS HSF badges. Note the portholes:

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We have not discussed this badge very much since Lorenzo's excellent research thread back on 10-23-2002. Since then, there has been some discussion on the exact order of production of the badge, but most agree that badge #1 with the wide pin was first, the next three followed.

What we have seen is that it is relatively rare to find worn first type RSS HSF badges. Most, due to the nature of the unique hinge and catch were prone to failure and the examples lately of the first type are either missing the hinge and catch or have been replaced at some point.

I will show a number of images of this badge and follow it with Lorenzo's image and narrative.

In any case, I think the RSS HSF badge is remarkable for its clarity in design and certainly ranks as one of the best of this type manufactured during the war.

If there have been other observations or opinions on this type of badge, it would be nice if they could be discussed, 4 years is a long time since Lorenzo's work, maybe there is something new that can be added.

John

[John R.]

reverse

reverse

[John R.]

hinge

ball hinge

[John R.]

flat catch

catch

[John R.]

Lorenzo's research

Lorenzo's research thread of 10-23-2002

"Here are scans of 4 Richard Simm & Sohne HSF badges. I think these show a progression of changes that the maker made as the war progressed, probably for economic or practical reasons. Each has the crimped-in ball hinges, but the pins and catches vary.

#1. Flat pin and wide catch.
#2. Round pin and wide catch
#3. Round pin and flat-wire catch (FAKE)
#4. Round pin and round-wire catch. (FAKE)

I believe that the maker started with the custom-made flat pin and wide catch as in badge #1. Both the pin and the catch were custom made to fit the badge. It is an extremely nice set-up, but I suspect that these pins and catches were costly to make, and the pins were soon abandoned for a standard round pin that would work just as well. Badge #2 would show the first deviation with a round pin and the wide catch that were probably leftover in inventory.

Then, having changed to the round pin, the next deviation would go to the flat-wire and round-wire catches (#3 and #4), both of which appear to be common inventory stock that were adapted to fit into the crimping area for the catch."

CHANGE TO THE ORIGINAL POST:

Variations 3 and 4 in the attached montage of RSS badges are fakes.

[John R.]

Rss Hsf

I might add that this badge has been faked to a great extent and requires caution on the part of a buyer but the fakes so far have not been correct with the reverse arrangement.

[Jeff V]

I don't have much to add except I can't recall seeing one of these for sale recently. A hard badge to find.

Jeff

[Jay V.]

Hi Jeff
The HsF in picture #3 is currently in my collection.Jay

[Jeff V]

Hi Jeff
The HsF in picture #3 is currently in my collection.Jay

I am not surprised Jay! best wishes,
jeff

[rhudspith]

Timeline

In relation to the timeline on these, I have seen two posthumous awarded HSF groups to sailors on the Scharnhorst which was sunk end of 43, badges awarded early 44 and both of these were the wide pin version.

[John R.]

In relation to the timeline on these, I have seen two posthumous awarded HSF groups to sailors on the Scharnhorst which was sunk end of 43, badges awarded early 44 and both of these were the wide pin version.

You are right Rob, and as you correctly pointed out, it is hard even with this type of posthumous grouping to determine what the order of manufacture might be.

This is so since, as in the case of Scharnhorst, so many badges and documents had to be sent to the families by the Kriegsmarine organization responsible for this sad task. In other words, I bet they had to really search to get everything they needed for the families, so the fact that one or another of the four known types went to a family in early 1944 is not going to be strictly conclusive due to the large number of deaths when Scharnhorst went down with essentially all hands.

I guess we can say that the supposed first type badge was at least made before early 1944, making the window of manufacture probably 1942-1943.

John

[John R.]

Since Mike is discussing the RSS badge in a recent thread, I thought we would bring this one back to the top. John

[George Stimson]

Here is my example. I too love the detail to the obverse of these badges!

[George Stimson]

Reverse.

[RICK S]

Hsf Rs&s

This is also one of my favorites, believed to be type 1 variety.