How Ribbon Bar Addicts Pass The Long, Dark Winter Hours

[Rick Research]

Some time ago, when a zink-crazed Stogie-Rick began purging SAXON items ( ! ! ! ), I picked up this nice little set, mostly because of the unusual French style lapel rosettes.

Then I decided I'd go through the Saxon WW1 rolls and see IF the original holder could be identified. From his DOUBLE Albert Orders, he had to have been promoted to a rank = to Captain during the war. But-- did he get the Saxon Civil Merit Order-Knight 1st Class with Swords (400), or the Knight 2nd Class (1,832) ?

I finished the "SV3aX"s-- out of those 400, only ONE had double Alberts-- but he also had a St Henry Order.

So, this group is a "SV3bX" with double Alberts. I've finished up through the letter "E," and only have 3 who haven't been excluded yet. On to F through Z in the New Year!

[David S]

A nice bar indeed!!!!!!

[WNickel]

Happy new year Rick,

very nice group - especially the rosettes - sehr süss...... It's very difficult to find out saxon wearers with only saxon awards - I'll help you, but later........ - now I'm only tired..........

Werner

[Dez H]

In the past it has been noted by a few people that the EK device is almost exclusively seen on Saxon bars. Are these all from one particular maker or are their variations in this EK device?

[Rick Research]

I don't think I've ever seen two that matched!!! For sure there are a bunch of different ones in closeup in the Devices Section of the Ribbon Bar Article!

I had thought the use of the unnecessary device was almost exclusively a Saxon fad, but I've seen lone EK2s in wear with it as far afield as Schleswig-Holstein.

Thinking of which-- check out the Turkish officer wearing ribbon bar photo from a couple of weeks back--in this Forum as well as International, since he's wearing a "German style" one. Yup-- the EK2 mini-- during the war! IT STARTED WITH THE TURKS!!!

[Daniel Krause]

Rick,

HOHOOOO! Dont tell me You will ID this!
I think it is a Merit Order 2nd class with swords. If this guy would have the 1st class I would expect a crown on the Albert knight 1st class. That would be the normal procedure. Otherwise I remember 2 smaller bars which came from the same "unknown" source. one had VO X, AO X, AO X, EK and the other VO X, AO X, EK.

Best regards

Daniel

[Rick Research]

Nope, I expect days of slaving away to end up with more than a dozen "untraceable" possible reserve officer "suspects."

But on a day like this, when icy rain is coating everything, the internet is dragging like molasses, and I've been disconnected four times in the last half hour, it gives me something to occupy my mind.

[Daniel Krause]

OHHHH POOR RICKY!
I´m so sorry for You.
If You are bored I can also give You something to do!

Best regards

Daniel

[Rick Research]

Done through "G" ten pages done... 27 to go still only three suspects.

Maybe there's "hope?"

[Mike Huxley]

Err Daniel .........

...... Is this the one smaller bar that you remembered from the “unknown” source. VO X, AO X, AO X, EK. Well it now resides in my collection.


Don’t suppose there’s a chance you can put a name to it Rick???

[stogieman]

Well, I suppose

.... I may have inadvertently broken these. When they came in, they came at different times, so I may have screwed up in not keeping them together. But, the flip-side is, I had at least 4 or 5 bars that were all pretty much the same combo of double Alberts! So, I just don't know Goils & Guys!

[Rick Research]

Well! Punishment will have to be levied in the form of Free Merchandise!!!

Never fear, Mike, yours is the same combination I'm looking for, so will see what comes out when the Fat Lady Sings. So far I'm through "J" (23 pages to go) and only have FIVE suspects: two ended up as Generals (and I doubt very much had a Silesian Eagle-- when I get the semi-final list I'll ask Bernhard and Glenn to check their bios), and one HAD to have gotten an "invisible" Bavarian MMO4X. Leaving, really, TWO candidates, almost halfway through the alphabet, and I haven't been outside the award rolls yet.

Surprisingly-- maybe NOT, actually, what I'm finding is that virtually every officer who had the CMO/double Albert trio, also had a St Henry-- which scratches THEM. Others had other awards, eliminating THEM.

I still don't expect to be down, ever, to One Name, but I'd be surprised if there are more than say TEN at the end of all this.


Anything to keep from shoveling! (AGAIN this morning, again tomrrow, again Saturday...)

[stogieman]

quityerbellyachinfercryinoutloud!

Geez, you would think that after spending all 347 years of his life in the beautiful Common Wealth (get it?? ) of Massachusettski, he'd be over this snow, sleet, hail, snow thing by now!

[Rick Research]

OK, using Ricky's Incredibly Ancient Brain, which finished up through "L," and Werner's Amazing Computer Data Base for M-Z (soooo easy, soooooooo "quick"... if only it hadn't taken 14 years of manual entry to get there, huh Werner!? )

Out of 1,800+ SV3bX (Saxon Civil Merit Order-Knight 2nd with Swords) holders who also had their share of the 3,900+ SA3aXs (Alberts-Knights 1stwXs) and the 11,300+ SA3bXs (Albert-Knights 2nd Xs)...

being able to exclude St Henry Order winners, Reichsheer officers with other known ribboned awards, Reserve and Landwehr officers with other known ribboned awards, and the occasional verified WW1 casualty, we "end up" with ELEVEN possible suspects (five unlikely of those)--

1) Bilharz, Eugen. Reichsheer officer (WW1 EKs, 1918 BWB), final rank Generalmajor 1.3.41, alive 1950s. I doubt VERY much that a serving army officer like him got a Silesian Eagle-- his army generals' bio should confirm his activities 1919-21. Unlikely

2) Brückner, Dr. Hans. Assistenzarzt der Reserve 6.8.12, was Stabsarzt dR by time of award of his SA3aX in June 1917, after which his continued existence remains unknown--the usual "disappearance" of reserve types leaving no paper trail.

3) Bruns, Werner. Lt dR 8.12.05 W in IR 107, Oberlt dR 24.10.13 Rr. last known alive when received his SA3AX November 1916. IF he even survived the war, I place him on the unlikely list, given his 1st commission date and where he was teetering in the Saxon "1914" (actually December 1913) List-- I'm sure he got the Reserve-Landwehr Decoration (LD2) in peacetime 1914. Unlikely

4) Haase, Konrad. Our second of two Generals. Went into the saxon police between the wars, then back into the army, final rank Generalleutnant 1.1.42, alive 1950s. Even less likely than Bilharz to have gotten a Silesian Eagle! Unlikely

5) Hauffe, Martin. Regular officer from Field Artillery Regt 48, retired as Hauptmann, alive 1928. Not a further trace of him found.

6) Honecker, Dr. Wolfgang. Stabsarzt dR, from his awards, seems to have spent the entire war as a Battalion or Regimental surgeon with Inf Rgt 102-- whose "chief" was the King of Bavaria. For those reasons, I'd say he HAD to have received a Bavarian MMO4X, apparently wihile still an Oberarzt dR since not in the "Captains up" roll. IF he survived the war, last known alive with his SA3aX May 1917. Unlikely

7) Maurer, Johannes. Regular officer, served entire war with Field Artillery Regt 64. Alive 1926-- not another trace.

8) Queck, Karl. Leutnant dL I 8.12.05Hh, and like Bruns, teetering adjacent to the most recent by seniority LD2 holder in his Landwehr District-- he surely got it in 1914. Last known alive August 1917 when he recieved his SA3aX. Unlikely

9) Stelzner, Albert. Oberleutnant dR 24.10.13 Ll in FAR 48 before the war, seems to have risen fast enough that he probably did NOT get an LD2 (last awarded in 1914). Last known alive October 1917 with his SA3aX.

10) Ulbricht, Friedrich. Regular officer from Foot Artillery Regiment 19, Hauptmann aD, alive in 1926. Unable to tace after that.

11) Walter, Erich. Regular officer in FAR 78--in which he served all through the war. Hauptmann aD, alive 1926. No further trace.


So: after prodigious effort of time and energy, we are left with eleven "suspects," of whom only SIX are "likely"-- and of those six, we only KNOW that four even survived the war to have POTENTIALLY had a 1921 "swords" Silesian Eagle.

Researching groups, like magic, may LOOK easy-- especially when the results are spectacular-- but it isn't. More often-- far more often than we'd like, eh Werner? -- it is a dirty, messy, thankless, no results job!!!!!


But SOMEBODY Has To Do It!

[Rick Research]

PS In Mike's case, the two Generals are NOT "excludable," and remain as potential wearers of HIS group. Mine has the Silesian Eagle on the bar and rosettes.