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**Dave C.** · 05-16-2006, 08:21 PM

This question has come up before with warrant discs and as far as I know, there is no known information about the numbers nor a "Dienstaltersliste" found to date for the Gestapo. Perahps one existed but it has not surfaced.

**DickH** · 05-22-2006, 04:35 PM

Too bad!

Let me tell you why I wanted to know this.
During the German occupation, the the Dutch Government Centre in The Hague, the "Binnenhof", was used by the SD and the SiPo.
About 10 -12 years ago, the buiding was renovated and, after being hidden for decades behind the wooden panelling, some rare items where found by a local construction worker. Among them was some kind of custom-made automatic knife with SS inscriptions and a Gestapo ID badge. The knife was sold to a collector but the badge was given to me by someone who purchased some items from the construction worker that discovered them. Now I want to find out something about the first owner of the badge.

**prorege1** · 05-22-2006, 05:11 PM

Suggest you compare your disc to the discs shown on Don Bible's homepage. Sofar no ID of an individual person to the number on a disc is possible unless you have the corresponding Ausweis with the same number as on the disc.

Link: http://users.adelphia.net/~donbible/

**Don Bible** · 05-23-2006, 11:31 AM

I agree with prorege1 that there is no known way at this time to identify the secret police officer who carried a Gestapo disc, unless someone has his ID card (Dienstausweis) showing the same number as the warrant disc (Dienstmarke).
Since the owner of the disc did not ask for an opinion of originality, I will not give one, but he should be thankful it was a "gift."

**DickH** · 05-23-2006, 01:37 PM

@ Don Bible: do you mean it is a fake ???

**Don Bible** · 05-23-2006, 02:55 PM

I am sorry to say, that in my opinion, your disc is not an original Gestapo warrant disc. There are several reasons for that opinion, but the most obvious one is the height of the number and the number line-up line. Both the number and the line are sitting much too high on the disc. They are placed in the position that would normally be seen on a Gemeinde Kripo disc.

**DickH** · 05-23-2006, 03:54 PM

Who am I to doubt your knowledge on this matter

but there is something I don't understand. If I had bought this item from someone who had a good story to go with it, I would be doublecrossed (at least), but that had been understandable. In this case the disc was given to me by a good friend who got it from the guy who found it (or better: proclaimes that he found it) so I can't find out who 's got the profit on this one

**Don Bible** · 05-23-2006, 06:21 PM

I would not attempt to give a place of orgin of your disc, or a reason for it being made, as I have nothing to go on. I think it is safe to say that the reason for the original production of most counterfeit pieces was a profit motive, although that is not always the case. It is known that at least one counterfeit Gestapo warrant disc was produced by an Allied intelligence agency, for the use of a German double-agent in escaping from Nazi Germany. The agent successfully used the disc while posing as a Gestapo operative in crossing into neutral Switzerland. As a matter of record, that disc was not like the disc you have.

**Dave C.** · 05-23-2006, 06:42 PM

Don, I am curious, would you mind sharing with us how many matched sets of Dienstausweis / Dienstmarke you have tracked over the years?

**Don Bible** · 05-23-2006, 07:03 PM

I have only encountered two matching sets of Gestapo credentials. They are #7977 for Kriminalassistent Franz Glatz, assigned to Staatspolizei-leit-stelle in Klagenfurt, Austria, and #8158 for Kriminalassistent Erich Goerke, assigned to Staatspolizei-leit-stelle in Münster / Westfalen, Germany.

In February, 2005, I spent parts of four days interviewing the widow and son of Erich Goerke. They were extremely hospitable and cooperative in answering questions pertaining to officer Goerke, who died in 1993, at the age of almost 84 years. I was invited into their home for meals and visits. They gave me many original photos of Erich Goerke at all stages of his life, and many original documents, which I would not accept without payment.

Franz Glatz has a foster daughter living in Austria, but so far, she has refused all contact with me. I continue to hope, but doubt that she will ever relent.

I know of four sets of matching Staatliche Kripo credentials.

**Dave C.** · 05-23-2006, 11:39 PM

Thanks Don! Well, at least there are two sets out there. I noticed the Franz Glatz Dienstausweis / Dienstmarke along with his story appears in your book on warrant discs. Was the Erich Goerke set found subsequent to publication since you visited the family in 2005? Certainly is fortunate to hear the family members were open to questions! Perhaps this rare experience and related items will appear in a future publication?

**Don Bible** · 05-24-2006, 02:02 AM

My last book "Gestapo Identification Credentials" published late last year, has about 25 pages of color photos and copy devoted to the Erich Goerke grouping, which includes his Gestapo warrant disc, ID card, Gestapo issued travel permit, Wehrpass, SS issued Walther PPK, and holster, and a Bürgomeister presented marriage edition of "Mein Kampfe." At this time, it is the only complete Gestapo credential grouping known to me. All the materials were hidden by Erich Goerke in 1945, and never saw the light of day again until 1967. The book has a total of 72 pages plus cover.

**Dave C.** · 05-24-2006, 06:53 AM

I wasn't aware of you recent publication! Am I able to email you directly to purchase a copy?

**MJC** · 05-24-2006, 08:08 AM

I am also interested in your new publication.

Regards,

M.

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