Buyer BEWARE!!!! Fake Juncker Observer badge.

[Lorenzo Brown]

Currently offered for sale on a major dealer website is this Observer Badge marked for CE Juncker. At first glance the badge looks good...but it is a high-end casting. The badge is made from a grey alloy and has the wrong hinge, catch and wreath design. Also the reverse is unfinished. A close-up of the eagle shows soft details. IMO this is a dangerous fake that fools many collectors.

[Lorenzo Brown]

Reverse

[Lorenzo Brown]

Eagle

[heinrich66]

A fake for sure. And still miles away from the original. I rember reading his article on the Juncker marked army para badges on his site......

[GELIS44]

Damn, thats a fine looking badge. I'm glad I don't collect Luft badges

[Frank Heukemes]

Well spotted, Lorenzo. It is from the fake series of Juncker badges (Heer para, Heer Flak, Glider, etc.) that all use this wrong Juncker logo.

[DanCz]

Well, well - - that is a real worry - - - certainly had me foolled !! At £700 that is a big mistake to make !!

[upbeek]

jc

who would believe that jc would be selling a fake,
why is he still in business his credability has been in tatters for a long time,
what an obscene waste of space

[Sebastian Bianchi]

I recieved the following message;

Remove all photos of mine as under the bonn convention you are breaking international copy rights as soon as you receive this.

If not I will take matters further, as the use of right or what you appear to believe wrong, pictures are a breach of international copyright.
If you feel they are copies, maybe it would be wiser to approach us and tell us of your concerns.
For the record, I personally am happy with this badge and don't consider it to be a fake.
I would be interested to know what type of catch and hinge and hook in your opinion are supposed to be on these type of badges and with regards to the wreath, it has the nice Juncker die fault I have found on many Pilot, Pilot Observers and other Juncker marked badges.
Jamie


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...85#post1241185



WWW.Thirdreichmedals.com

I personally feel that we are using these under "fair use" (ie - not for profit or in a selling context). Since I can not answer Mr. Cross, I would apreciate it if someone else here would (Lorenzo?).

Thanks,

[mmiller]

Lorenzo,

I saw that badge too, this morning. If it is supposed to be an early Juncker, then it must be tombak. If it is tombak, why is it grey.

End of discussion for me.

Seba,

Funny about all the copyright crap, Mr. Cross is using images of my old FAKE Heer para makermark, and using it in the context to support the wrong makermark as correct.

Mark

PS - The Observer is from the same series of Luft fakes that we have come to expect from Authentic Militaria, if I am correct.

[Lorenzo Brown]

First point: Copyright infringement.
Well....without going into a thirty-page legal dissertation about copyright laws (I will leave that to our legal-eagle members if they are so inclined to respond here), I am very comfortable that we have not violated any copyright protection that Mr. Cross claims to have obtained for himself.

I would ask Mr. Cross to provide us with some kind of proof that he has truly obtained copyrights to anything.

And what EXACTLY did he copyright???? (Assuming that he actually has obtained a copyright)

IF he copyrighted the BADGE itself, then that is self-incriminating evidence that he is protecting his creative rights in the badge. This clearly implies that he created the badge himself.....and is prima facie evidence that the badge is a FAKE!!

More likely he obtained a copyright to protect his creative investment in the 15-second scan he took to sell the badge on his website.

Fair enough!!....but note that it is NOT the SCAN that he is trying to sell nor that we are criticising. Rather...it is the subject of the scan....the BADGE!!!

Furthermore, my use of the scan is not intended to rob him of his creative entitlements for the 15 seconds he invested to create a scan of the badge.. Please note that I have included and given him FULL CREDIT for the scan by including his website and copyright notice. Also, I did not use the scan for competitive purposes nor to rob him of any entitlement for his scanning efforts.

Finally....the purpose of using his "copyrighted" scan was to expose the subject of the scan (the badge) as a FAKE. This is clearly for the public benefit and comes under "fair use" copyright laws.


Second Point: Is the Badge a Fake or REAL?

Mr. Cross has already stated his belief that the badge is REAL. Experience on this Forum has taught us that Mr. Cross adheres steadfastly to his beliefs and is not willing to listen to reason nor to well-founded arguments.

I see no point in trying to convince somebody who is not willing to learn.


Final Point: FACT IS......that the badge is a FAKE and Mr. Cross chooses to hide behind his murky "copyright" interpretations rather than discuss the badge here in a mature, straightforward fashion.

[Brian S]

Yeah, I have a real 'nice' Sub Badge from him bought a few years ago with a packet. First and last purchase...

If this photo comes from his "fakes gallery" of badges, his 'copyright' should be respected. Else...

[skip]

Well spotted and the closeup of the eagle really reveals what a POS this is.

Skip

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hi Guys,

Agree , a POS for sure, not really even a very good POS, but I'm sure that a few dozen of them will be sold anyway

Best,
Joe

[upbeek]

Fake

FAKE
he sold me a fake apb i had to take him to court for my money back,
the courts could see he was bent and awarded me all of my money back plus expenses,total £1000 pounds
this is exactly what he is like,with all his legal jargon crap he cannot back up anything legally ,
what a load of old cobblers
regards chay