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**SiPo** · 05-18-2019, 12:53 AM

Great post Joe.

**ww2gunguy** · 05-18-2019, 11:24 AM

Great stuff !

**SMV** · 05-18-2019, 08:47 PM

Joe, do you think there could be actually more than two separate "detective" type services within the Reichs Bahn?

There is the Bahn-Polizei Beamter, this is the type of disc Herr Streckwaldt owns, and the only one to surface so far, and possibly a plain clothes branch official.

And now, the , the dienstmarke that you've shared with us, and again a seemingly one of example, the first to surface.

I am just wondering if there were two different plainclothes services that required a disc. Both the Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst and the Bahn-Polizei Beamter?

I really don't think that the Bahn Polizei Beamter is the same branch as the regular Bahnschutzpolizei or the Bahnpolizei which were the uniformed branches with military type ranks, ie; Bz-Pol.-Mann, Bahnschutzmanner.

What are your thoughts?

**Gary Symonds** · 05-19-2019, 12:34 AM

Joe, thanks for posting.

Could you possibly post some better pictures, can't make out the serial number because of the Photo Bucket Logo in the way.

**JoeW** · 05-19-2019, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by SMV View Post

Joe, do you think there could be actually more than two separate "detective" type services within the Reichs Bahn?

There is the Bahn-Polizei Beamter, this is the type of disc Herr Streckwaldt owns, and the only one to surface so far, and possibly a plain clothes branch official.

And now, the , the dienstmarke that you've shared with us, and again a seemingly one of example, the first to surface.

I am just wondering if there were two different plainclothes services that required a disc. Both the Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst and the Bahn-Polizei Beamter?

I really don't think that the Bahn Polizei Beamter is the same branch as the regular Bahnschutzpolizei or the Bahnpolizei which were the uniformed branches with military type ranks, ie; Bz-Pol.-Mann, Bahnschutzmanner.

What are your thoughts?

I can understand your thoughts about a uniformed Bahnpolizei official carrying a Dienstmarke, but it was not unusual for uniformed state police officials of the Weimar and earlier Imperial era to carry a Dienstmarke. Streckwaldt shows some on his website; I have examples of such discs in my collection as well.

As explained in Streckwaldt's web site, such "Eisenbahn Interessen" Dienstmarken were used by uniformed Bahn police officials in the Imperial and Weimar eras with the same language. As explained by Streckwaldt, the Weimar government created the first nationalized police force in the Reichsbahn, with a uniformed branch and one detective branch. No, there was only one plainclothes detective service in the Deutsches Reichsbahn-the Fahndungsdienst.

Attached Files

**JoeW** · 05-19-2019, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by Gary Symonds View Post

Joe, thanks for posting.

Could you possibly post some better pictures, can't make out the serial number because of the Photo Bucket Logo in the way.

It is 242 Gary.

**SMV** · 05-19-2019, 01:41 AM

Thank you Joe.

**Volksturmer** · 05-25-2019, 08:42 PM

Very interesting post, Joe. And very convincing, I think this one is legitimately a rare item you don’t see often, due to the rarity of the subject addressed. Details and circumstances are strong evidence too. Excellent rare discovery.
Hard to discount, incredible rare find. Best wishes and good acquisition, Joe.

**Dave C.** · 05-26-2019, 08:12 AM

Congrats on this new discovery and excellent work, very informative. One part that really jumps out to me is the March of 1944 decree with the recall and replacement with a disc similar to the Kripo disc. It's early enough, could there be another undiscovered disc out there somewhere?! Perhaps this is another factor to why this disc posted remained undiscovered for so long. Very interesting and thank you for posting!

**Gerd W.** · 05-26-2019, 09:09 AM

Here is, what the regulation say

Fahndungsdienst der Deutschen Reichsbahn/Reichsbahnpolizei
Gemäß Runderlass des Reichsführers SS und Chefs der Deutschen Polizei und des Reichsverkehrsministeriums (RdErl.d.RFSSuChdDtPol. u.d.RVM) vom 1.3.1944 -S-V A 1 Nr. 97/44 u. 11 Vubdg 66/44 in Ausführung der Bestimmungen in Ziff. 1 des RdErl. v. 15.3.1943(MBliV. S. 467) über Sicherheitspol. - Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst, führen die Reichsbahnfahndungsbeamten eine Erkennungsmarke aus gelbem Metall von 2mm Stärke, ovaler Form, 5cm Länge, 3,5cm Breite. Sie zeigt auf der einen Seite das Hoheitszeichen des Großdeutschen Reiches und auf der anderen Seite die Inschrift „Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst" und die laufende Nummer des Dienstausweises des Inhabers.

**JoeW** · 03-08-2020, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Gerd W. View Post

Here is, what the regulation say

Fahndungsdienst der Deutschen Reichsbahn/Reichsbahnpolizei
Gemäß Runderlass des Reichsführers SS und Chefs der Deutschen Polizei und des Reichsverkehrsministeriums (RdErl.d.RFSSuChdDtPol. u.d.RVM) vom 1.3.1944 -S-V A 1 Nr. 97/44 u. 11 Vubdg 66/44 in Ausführung der Bestimmungen in Ziff. 1 des RdErl. v. 15.3.1943(MBliV. S. 467) über Sicherheitspol. - Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst, führen die Reichsbahnfahndungsbeamten eine Erkennungsmarke aus gelbem Metall von 2mm Stärke, ovaler Form, 5cm Länge, 3,5cm Breite. Sie zeigt auf der einen Seite das Hoheitszeichen des Großdeutschen Reiches und auf der anderen Seite die Inschrift „Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst" und die laufende Nummer des Dienstausweises des Inhabers.

Actually Gerd, I believe you posted the above portion of the 1.3.1944 decree out of context. The portion you posted described the new Erkennungsmarke (Dienstmarke) that was planned to be issued to conform to the existing RSHA issued Dienstmarken for the Gestapo and Kripo (the Gemeinde Kripo had been merged and new officials received regular Kripo discs). This decree also described a planned new Ausweis for the Hilfspolizeibeamter of the RBFD to be white with a green strip diagonally across the front. But like the planned Erkennungsmarken, there is no evidence that they were produced.

But you did leave out this paragraph 5) Andere als die unter abs.2b) beschriebenen Erkennungsmarken dürfen von dem im Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst tätigen Reichsbahnbeamten nicht mehr geführt werden. Die runden Erkennungsmarken, mit denen die im Reichsbahnfahndungsdienst tätigen Reichsbahnbeamten zum Teil ausgesttet waren, sind von den Reichbahndirektionen zu vernichten.

This roughly states that identity discs other than those described in preceding paragraph 2b) may no longer be used by the Reichsbahn officials who works in the Reichsbahn Fahndungs Dienst. The round identification tags (like mine shown above) with which the Reichsbahn officers working in the Reichsbahn Fahndungs Dienst were equipped, must be destroyed by the Reichbahndirektion. So evidently, the round discs stayed in service and were de-nazified by post-war Bundesbahn authorities for continued use, similar to Kripo discs used in the British zone of occupation.

**SiPo** · 03-10-2020, 04:26 AM

Great thread.

**JoeW** · 03-10-2020, 10:51 AM

Thanks G-Man. Unfortunately, my earlier use of Photobucket links resulted in no images as PB decided to blur all unpaid account images. Dave kindly replaced the PB images with current ones and I added some additional data to Gerd's last post. My opinion that the new RBFD Dienstmarke and Auweis were never issued can be disputed of course, but I would think that some physical evidence would surface after 75 years. As it is, the RBFD disc above is the only one I have encoutered as well as Streckwaldt. And I have seen no examples of an accompanying Ausweis.

**JoeW** · 03-10-2020, 07:16 PM

I wondered how the officials of the RBFD would be armed when conducting investigations on their own and in conjunction with officials of the Gestapo and Kripo. Of course! Plainclothes would necessitate a small compact firearm: the Walther PPK. So I was able to locate a PPK nicely marked to the Reichsbahn Direktion Münster (Westf.) along with a proper holster for concealment.

Attached Files

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The Identity Disc of the German Railway Detectives

The Identity Disc of the German Railway Detectives

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