Just curious... Sepp Dietrich?

[Mooyman]

I think somebody mentioned one of his uniforms (black panzer jacket) being in the Virginia War Memorial Museum in Hampton, Virginia, as well as Peiper's black panzer jacket. I HIGHLY DOUBT if they are authentic from the picture I saw of them.

Bob

The image:



Best regards,

Ricardo.

[Scott C.]

I think this is the standard Wolfe-Hardin show display...

[Bob Coleman]

I think somebody mentioned one of his uniforms (black panzer jacket) being in the Virginia War Memorial Museum in Hampton, Virginia, as well as Peiper's black panzer jacket. I HIGHLY DOUBT if they are authentic from the picture I saw of them.

Bob

BOB-
THE LEATHER COAT WAS IN THE SAME COLLECTOR'S HANDS FROM THE TIME I SOLD IT IN 1975 UNTIL RECENTLY COMING BACK TO ME. WHILE WE WRE TALKING, HE MENTIONED THE DIETRICH WRAPPER IN VIRGINIA. EVIDENTLY, HE HAD DISCUSSED THE PIECE AT ONE TIME WITH THE CURATOR. HE WAS TOLD THE PROVENANCE ON THEIR WRAPPER. THEY HAD RECEIVED THE SAME STORY OF HOW DIETRICH'S WIFE TRIED TO CROSS THE BORDER FROM AUSTRIA AND FINDING THE HOUSE IN THE MOUNTAINS WHICH WAS IDENTICAL TO THE WRITTEN PROVENANCE I HAD GOTTEN FROM THE VET WHO BROUGHT BACK THE LEATHER COAT. ALTHOUGH I CANNOT COMMENT ON THE WRAPPER FROM THE POSTED PICTURE, THE MATCHING STORIES SEEM TO GIVE CREEDANCE TO THE ORIGINALITY OF THE PIECE IN VIRGINIA-EXPECIALLY WHEN THE PROVENANCE OF MY COAT WAS ONLY KNOWN TO THE TWO OF US.

[markus]

Yes, the leather-coat...

It was on offer around April/May last year and I was seriously considering to buy it. I think it's price was around USD 15-16,000.00, right?

At the same time the opportunity arose to purchase a very large LAH Pz.Rgt.1 group of docs, diary (1941-1945)soldbuch and 400 photos in 3 albums at the same terms, so I was trapped between the 2 items and finally chose the group.

I think the coat would have enventually bored me a bid....Did I chose wrongly?

[Bob Coleman]

MARCUS-
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, YOU MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE

[Erwin L]

Hello
Interesting thread. I always wonder what if the family want these items back incase they never sold it and it was taken for instance by a allied vet.

For instance when a US vet took a named german uniform tunic to the US and after a few years he sold it to a collector. The family found out that some collector has a uniform of a relative from them and want the uniform back. Who is the real owner? The vet or the family?

The same for documents, awards. Only incase when it was never sold by the family. For instance here is told that Peiper's son had the awards. What if he wants the tunic or other things back in his family? It was his dad. Peiper probably didn't gave it away but it was taken from him.

regards Erwin

[Bobbe]

Hello
Interesting thread. I always wonder what if the family want these items back incase they never sold it and it was taken for instance by a allied vet.

For instance when a US vet took a named german uniform tunic to the US and after a few years he sold it to a collector. The family found out that some collector has a uniform of a relative from them and want the uniform back. Who is the real owner? The vet or the family?

The same for documents, awards. Only incase when it was never sold by the family. For instance here is told that Peiper's son had the awards. What if he wants the tunic or other things back in his family? It was his dad. Peiper probably didn't gave it away but it was taken from him.

regards Erwin

I quote!

[Pfalz DIIIa]

One Dietrich uniform has surfaced for sure. I have seen it numerous times. And Bob, you know the collector who has it...Tom

Tom? Shhhhhh After I met Sepps Son, I was sworn to secrecy...

[Bobwirtz]

It is considered as War Booty, therefore, it belongs to the person who has it. If Peiper's son wanted his father's tunic back, he'd have to try and buy it back. Personal property, such as a wedding band, civilian watch, etc. are protected and could be returned via court action; however, anything on the uniform, including the uniform, is legally war booty and not subject to court action. Maybe some of our distinguished members here that are lawyers can give us further insight into this. I have a collector acquaintance who owns an engraved German Cross in Gold and the original owner wants it back. But unless this collector voluntarily gives or sells it back, the vet has no legal claim to it. The medal was taken away from him by the Soviets so the vet didn't give it away, but supposedly under the Rules of War, it is a souvenier and not subject to legal challenge.

Bob

[Erwin L]

Hello Bob

Thanks for the clear explanation. So when it's army related it is war booty otherwise not. If it was not war booty, a lot collectors would be in problems I guess.

Regards Erwin

[markus]

MARCUS-
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, YOU MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE

Congrats, Bob! You got it back in your collection then.

I passed on the coat: Everything happens for a reason in life!
And that's good.

[bwanek1]

It is considered as War Booty, therefore, it belongs to the person who has it...supposedly under the Rules of War, it is a souvenier and not subject to legal challenge.

There is no such legal definition as "war booty" or anything similar. The items are all technically stolen property. International conventions regarding the conduct of war specifically prohibit the taking of personal belongings of any sort. Soldiers are permitted only to secure items for their own use in combat (weapons, optical equipment, signal gear, etc.). However, even this is limited. A soldier cannot take personal protective equipment and clothing (helmet, gas mask, cold weather clothing, etc.) from a prisoner while still in a combat environment where those items may still be needed by the prisoner for his own protection from harm. Any soldier found in possession of what you describe as "war booty" today could risk prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice depending on what his "souvenir" is and how/from whom he obtained it.

[redfaced]

Caveat emptor!

[markus]

The image:



Best regards,

Ricardo.

Peiper: Never seen Peiper with a GC in cloth sewn to his wrapper.
The TDB strip looks odd as well.

Dietrich: Was never awarded a German Cross and never wore anything on his right breast side.

I have the impression that these are retailored pieces for display at the maximum.

[Bobwirtz]

And if we got good pictures of those caps, particularly the insides and under the hood, NTZ and Stonemint would probably rip them apart.

IMHO, these are reproductions.

Bob