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Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

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    #16
    .

    You guys use it as a figure of speech "its a minefield", this is just an example to relay my personal opinion, i have experience in real Minefields, may which were laid sometimes 40-50 or more years ago (and still very active and dangerous) with little evidence or information about them available to figure out how to best clear them or take other appropriate action. The biggest thing you have to keep in your head is don't think you are ever an "expert", don't think you know or have seen everything and every possibility or every strain of a given item or situation. If you think in that way that way you're already a dead man and you have no business in leading people who are looking to you daily for leadership and action because the smallest piece of "unbelievable" or non standard non conforming information can be important in solving the puzzle sometimes. It becomes relevant indeed, and you can never think from "the now" , only "the then"....When you deal with potential life or death decisions daily the ego seems to slip away from the important study of situations and evidence, i'm sure that kind of thinking could be effective applied here as well to good use in a way. I have certainly never seen it all and never will. For all the people on here who have handled thousands of items and are a wealth of information i don't see the proper and correct attitude displayed from them that will advance this hobby further. Pink smocks for example, what an intriguing item as to what it could or could not be, why they are (maybe on purpose) relegated to the UFOs of SS Camo is beyond me for example. Just my 2 cents. Post the shot of the real cover from the book next to this one then side by side, forensically and lets study them. I'm very interested to learn and see because im not getting what i need from the current descriptions.

    Pete
    Last edited by pete; 03-30-2016, 06:05 AM.

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      #17
      Study and learn, buy that you know then it is not a minefield at all.

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        #18
        I do not know Lorenzo personally, but he did contact me to trade 2 Planetree ¾ Helmet Covers for one of my Un-Issued Waffen SS Helmet Covers. He did send photos and I proposed to post them on this forum, but he did not like that and email me “I am happy with my pieces, I dont look for feedback and I dont wish that someone burn on forum my pieces” and that is when I decided not go forth with the trade. He did send many photos of his Waffen SS camouflage collection and seemed to be a nice guy, but when he did not want others on this forum to see the helmet covers, I had my concerns.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post
          i've read all those threads about "Italian fake covers" and each cover in every thread is different from each other as well as "tell-tales of the same faker" are different and reasons indicating that they are fake are also different -- in every thread and none of those reasons was really convincing. That's what I saw. I also saw that the same group of camo-collectors whose collections are very modest attacked and attacked Lorenzo who has the largest camo-collection in the world and who is also now an author of the new 4-volume books about SS uniforms, which BTW depict only items from his own collection. I also learned that most of big-name and most-trusted dealers such as RuppturedDuck, GermanMilitaria, HannachsReich, VirtuaGrenadier have been selling and are still selling Lorenzo's items which are 100% original. Excuse me but I don't see a reason why I should listen to you Owen instead of Lorenzo.

          It is true that I know Lorenzo and that I indeed edited the English language portions of his new books (on behalf and at the request of Neil Stewart), it is untrue that I have been offered or sold helmet covers or smocks for him.

          In the recent 'champagne rune decal thread' it was also claimed that VirtualGrenadier had sold these types. That is also not the case as I have never owned or sold such a helmet. I did not comment that time but take this opportunity to set the record straight.

          Perhaps it is unrealistic to expect folks posting here to do some basic fact checking. Anyway, having commented I will now look forward to reading another civil and well-reasoned thread focusing on the facts. I am certainly interested in learning more.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Mike Davis View Post
            It is true that I know Lorenzo and that I indeed edited the English language portions of his new books (on behalf and at the request of Neil Stewart), it is untrue that I have been offered or sold helmet covers or smocks for him.

            In the recent 'champagne rune decal thread' it was also claimed that VirtualGrenadier had sold these types. That is also not the case as I have never owned or sold such a helmet. I did not comment that time but take this opportunity to set the record straight.

            Perhaps it is unrealistic to expect folks posting here to do some basic fact checking. Anyway, having commented I will now look forward to reading another civil and well-reasoned thread focusing on the facts. I am certainly interested in learning more.
            Mike I also know Lorenzo and also helped him a bit with his books. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy a plane tree smock from him and he directed me to your site to look at his smock listed on your site . It is still there :


            http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=1388

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              #21
              http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=1177

              How about this one...

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                #22
                Oh heck, you're right about the smock from several years ago - I had forgotten that one! Oops. In any case, I did not actually sell it. The SS uniform did not come from Lorenzo. Anyway, will look forward to a clean discussion and perhaps actually learning something....

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                  #23
                  http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=450986

                  Maybe he was not the one who consigned it, but we all know where it came from. Edit: He even wrote here on Waf that he sold it for a "friend" . But whom he sold it to, i dont know, it ended up on your site eventually.

                  Mike, do you believe that this tunic is a true galizien tunic? be honest...
                  Last edited by Daniel.S; 03-30-2016, 09:28 AM.

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                    #24
                    Disco
                    Is the cover that started this thread real?
                    Answer the question

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Daniel.S View Post
                      And caps etc etc.

                      Also not to forget SS tunics restored as very exotic one of a kind rare tunics sold as untouched orginals.

                      and helmets ss double decal fake

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                        #26
                        Well if I may interject here. The Galizien tunic although posted initially by Lorenzo for opinions about the shield actually did not come from him, he states "it belong from a friend of mine." I actually know the actual seller/collector in Italy that had the tunic and put it for sale with Mike. I believe the consignor wanted to do a trade with Lorenzo and / or have him sell some ss items from his collection, etc...It did not work out(luckily for him in the end it seems), and the owner (not Lorenzo) then posted it for sale with Mike along with some other items.

                        Needless to say one has to base the tunic on its own merits, not just on who has had contact with it. Obviously Lorenzo sold the good with the bad. No one dealer or collector this advanced just sells fakes. And just since an item has an association with someone does not necessarily condemn or taint it.

                        I currently own the tunic, and I am happy with it, so I guess that is all that really matters. It is an original tunic. Heavily and professionally modified during the period IMO, with a very rare variation bevo Galizien shield. Officer tabs IMO post war applied. So could have been either runic or lion I guess. Whether one believes the rag find from Italy story, up to you. I have seen a lot of rare items from there so it is definitely in the round of possibility.

                        I do not agree with what Lorenzo seems to have done, and think he definitely should be punished should these allegation prove true. Sad fact what this hobby and greed can do to someone.

                        Originally posted by Daniel.S View Post
                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=450986

                        Maybe he was not the one who consigned it, but we all know where it came from. Edit: He even wrote here on Waf that he sold it for a "friend" . But whom he sold it to, i dont know, it ended up on your site eventually.

                        Mike, do you believe that this tunic is a true galizien tunic? be honest...

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                          #27
                          Asked to post photos of the 3/4 Planetree Helmet Covers offered to trade for one of my Un-Issued Waffen SS Helmet Cover.
                          Attached Files

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                            #28
                            more photos for details
                            Attached Files

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                              #29
                              more photos for details 3
                              Attached Files

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                                #30
                                more photos for details 4
                                Attached Files

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