Ostvolk Decorations

[Tom Yanacek]

Question

Both of these Bronze Bravery Decorations are unmarked on the suspension ring, and they appear to be identical in every respect. Am I correct in saying that both of these are considered to be the controversial "Friedrich Keller" type?

Thank you & best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Another question

I have always wondered about this type too. It is the non-rope, flatback type. I know that some of this type have been found with marked suspension rings to Rudolf Wächtler & Lange, but my example is unmarked. Is this type controversial?

Thank you & best regards,
Tom

[RonR]

A marked example of the"flat back"


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[RonR]

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[Tom Yanacek]

Of these seven examples (pictured below) four of them are marked with the Lieferant number '100'. (Examples 1, 2, 4, & 6)

I examined the die strike characteristics of the unmarked gold w/o swords (3) and the unmarked silver with swords (5), comparing them to the marked examples. I can say with absolute certainty, that these two, unmarked examples, were struck off the Rudolf Wächtler & Lange dies. But the bronze with swords example (7) was struck from an entirely different die, so I would assume that a different manufacturer was involved here.

Here is the measurement and weight data on the seven examples:

1. gold with swords (marked 100) 39.62mm wide x 45.46mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 14.7 grams

2. gold w/o swords (marked 100) 39.88mm wide x 44.96mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 14.3 grams

3. gold w/o swords (unmarked) 39.95mm wide x 45.03mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 14.1 grams

4. gold w/o swords (marked 100) 39.75mm wide x 44.83mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 13.8 grams

5. silver with swords (unmarked) 39.70mm wide x 45.46mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 15.5 grams

6. silver w/o swords (marked 100) 40.03mm wide x 45.01mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.92mm weight is 13.9 grams

7. bronze with swords (unmarked) 40.25mm wide x 45.57mm high
diameter of center medallion is 18.82 weight is 15.1 grams

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Does anyone know how many of these were awarded during the war? I would think a pretty large number and that several manufacturers would have been involved in production. If Friedrich Keller was a legitimate manufacture of these, and they only produced the second class in bronze, maybe that is not as illogical as one would think. As far as my understanding goes, these decorations were awarded to the Eastern volunteers in a progression: They had to first have the bronze second class before getting the silver second class. Once they had the silver second class, they were eligible to be awarded the gold second class. And they had to have all three second classes before becoming eligible for the silver first class. And once they had the silver first class, only then were they eligible for a gold first class. Many eastern volunteers probably never got beyond the bronze second class. Therefore, wouldn't the need for bronze second classes exceed the need for all other classes by far? In this regard, maybe it is logical to think that Keller was only contracted to produce the lowest class (the one that was needed the most). Just some food for thought.

Best regards,
Tom

[peterm]

Does anyone know how many of these were awarded during the war? I would think a pretty large number and that several manufacturers would have been involved in production. If Friedrich Keller was a legitimate manufacture of these, and they only produced the second class in bronze, maybe that is not as illogical as one would think. As far as my understanding goes, these decorations were awarded to the Eastern volunteers in a progression: They had to first have the bronze second class before getting the silver second class. Once they had the silver second class, they were eligible to be awarded the gold second class. And they had to have all three second classes before becoming eligible for the silver first class. And once they had the silver first class, only then were they eligible for a gold first class. Many eastern volunteers probably never got beyond the bronze second class. Therefore, wouldn't the need for bronze second classes exceed the need for all other classes by far? In this regard, maybe it is logical to think that Keller was only contracted to produce the lowest class (the one that was needed the most). Just some food for thought.

Best regards,
Tom

Hi Tom!

First I have to say, that the "Fraktur"-letters NEVER have been forbidden. Needless to say, that the last "Organisationsbuch der NSDAP" (7. edition 1943) was printed in... Fraktur!
I once read somewhere (but really don't remember where), that Himmler had the "fantastic" idea, this lettering would be jewish. Don't know, if this is true or not, the lettering itself existed in 1945 an still exists today, although not in use for printing books.

Second to say is, that each of the "Ostvölker"-awards of the 2nd classe could be given 3 TIMES to the same man, which was also possible for some Russian awards, but too e.g. for Austrian bravery-medals.

Kind regards, Peter

[RonR]

From the net.....


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[juoneen]

I have two of these(1/gold, and one silver)both came from vets . One was one of the first medals I ever got from a puerto rican vet who fought for the US. We played with his cz heer decaled helm and ss polizei black helmet battle flags belts and equipment as kids. They had the gold version in their toy shelf, and gave it to me as a gift. I had no idea at the time what the medal was for. The silver came from another vets estate in the mid west, and I will try and post mine later when I can dig it out . These typicly always have the finishes oxidized off, and traces still remain on the rings and back edge areas of the silver or gold.
I have never found the bronze yet, but know of one in an estate lot , but they want too much for the pile , although I do have a photo of it somewhere. Nice medals you guys have, and interesting thread, andI really like the photo ron posted. Now thats a nice shoulder shield...we all would like to own.

[RonR]

I really like the photo ron posted. Now thats a nice shoulder shield...we all would like to own.

Still on part of the uniform.......



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[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Tom!

First I have to say, that the "Fraktur"-letters NEVER have been forbidden. Needless to say, that the last "Organisationsbuch der NSDAP" (7. edition 1943) was printed in... Fraktur!
I once read somewhere (but really don't remember where), that Himmler had the "fantastic" idea, this lettering would be jewish. Don't know, if this is true or not, the lettering itself existed in 1945 an still exists today, although not in use for printing books.

Second to say is, that each of the "Ostvölker"-awards of the 2nd classe could be given 3 TIMES to the same man, which was also possible for some Russian awards, but too e.g. for Austrian bravery-medals.

Kind regards, Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for posting. I agree with your comments in regard to Frakturschrift. I have also read about how each of the second class decorations could be awarded up to three times. I think that is mentioned in the wartime publication by Dr. Heinrich Doehle. IMO, this is one more reason why it might not be unusual to think that a manufacturer (such as Keller) was contracted to only produce the bronze second classes. If a recipient could potentially get up to three bronze second class decorations before getting even one silver second class, that shows an exponentially-increasing need for production of the bronze second classes: a production need that must have involved other manufacturers.

Best regards,
Tom

[andrei1774]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for posting. I agree with your comments in regard to Frakturschrift. I have also read about how each of the second class decorations could be awarded up to three times. I think that is mentioned in the wartime publication by Dr. Heinrich Doehle. IMO, this is one more reason why it might not be unusual to think that a manufacturer (such as Keller) was contracted to only produce the bronze second classes. If a recipient could potentially get up to three bronze second class decorations before getting even one silver second class, that shows an exponentially-increasing need for production of the bronze second classes: a production need that must have involved other manufacturers.

Best regards,
Tom

Hi guys,
the fonts issue was already discussed on Cases and Packets sub forum and Markus Hatton proved that fonts was change in 1941-1942 , but I can't find the thread after forum moved to a new server.
I post the images of Keller Ostmedaille packet and it has regular font, even Ostmedaille was instituted early, in May 1942. How explain that, Keller firm going back and forth with fonts?

[andrei1774]

I got it. Here http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...tvolker+packet

[Tom Yanacek]

But if Frakturschrift was prohibited, why is it found on packets for other late war medals?

For instance, how about a late war packet for the Westwall Medal: It is actually a East Medal packet that has been converted for use with the Westwall Medal, when it was re-instituted in 1944.

[Tom Yanacek]

Or a packet for the Spanish Blue Division? A medal that was not instituted until 1944.

This certainly looks like an original Deschler Spanish Blue Division Medal and an original Deschler packet.