Souval U-boat Badge

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi guys,

I found this Rudolf Souval U-boat badge for cheap at this past weekend's SOS. It looks to me like a wartime-issued badge, although we can never be too sure when it comes to Souval.

The badge has a good amount of finish on the front, but it is faded and now appears more silvery than gold. The reverse has the angular 'R.S' marking. Unfortunately, the catch is missing on this badge. It looks like the catch on this example was simply soldered into a hole (like what we see with Friedrich Orth badges) instead of being applied with the use of a catch plate.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

A bit of misalignment on the obverse and reverse dies:

[Tom Yanacek]

Repair Alert!

I went and made a replacement catch, so that the badge can be functional once again.

[Tom Yanacek]

replacement catch:

[BubbaZ]

Hi Tom,
Nice catch!
IMO RS badges with ?-mark catch with no base plate have much higher chance to be wartime than Souvals with other types of catch.
Here is my AC with the same catch and no base plate.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Hubert,

Thank you for the comments. That is a nice Souval Auxiliary Cruiser Badge. Thanks for posting it.

Best regards,
Tom

[Martin W]

Hi Tom,

IMO RS badges with ?-mark catch with no base plate have much higher chance to be wartime than Souvals with other types of catch.

I have to disagree here Hubert.

I have two RS HSK awards,both have catchplates,faded gilded reverses and are both period originals IMO.The folded sheet metal hinge with "squared" corners and the long round wire mainpin are also good signs of originality.
In regards to the obverse,the "blackened" globe and gilded bow waves are also a good sign.

Regards,Martin.

[Martin W]

The obverse of the above badge.

As mentioned,a "blackened" globe and traces of gilding on the bow waves can also be seen.

Sorry for getting off topic Tom,and BTW i like the U-Boat badge.


Regards,Martin.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi guys,

I'm okay with a question mark catch soldered into a hole and also with the catches that use a catch plate. Of course the Souval badges will always be somewhat puzzling because of their prolific postwar production. But I think it is very possible that both setups were used during wartime production and are probably legitimate variants. So many other manufacturers used a number of different hardware setups, so why not Souval as well?

Here is a Souval Auxiliary Cruiser that I used to own and I always thought it to be an original.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

And here is another that I always liked:

[BubbaZ]

I have to disagree here Hubert.

I have two RS HSK awards,both have catchplates,faded gilded reverses and are both period originals IMO.The folded sheet metal hinge with "squared" corners and the long round wire mainpin are also good signs of originality.
In regards to the obverse,the "blackened" globe and gilded bow waves are also a good sign.

Regards,Martin.

Hi Martin,
Now I see the difference between what I wrote and what I wanted to say...
What I really wanted to say was that I do not recall seeing any presumably postwar Souval badge with question mark catch and no base plate. All RS badges that I saw with this type of catch were at least honest wartime compatible examples. This of course does not mean that Souval did not produce KM badges with other type of catches during wartime. He surely did. But while other catches were used by Souval during wartime and postwar (leftovers?), the ?-mark catch might be used during wartime only (no spare catches left after the war ended?).
I enclose my honest wartime ground dug RS S-boot found in KM naval base Swinoujscie. It obviously does not feature the question mark catch with no base plate.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

Here is an example of ground dug RS Destroyer, as far as I remember, also found in Poland. It also features this uncommon question mark catch with no base plate.
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

more

[Norm F]

What I really wanted to say was that I do not recall seeing any presumably postwar Souval badge with question mark catch and no base plate. All RS badges that I saw with this type of catch were at least honest wartime compatible examples. This of course does not mean that Souval did not produce KM badges with other type of catches during wartime. He surely did. But while other catches were used by Souval during wartime and postwar (leftovers?), the ?-mark catch might be used during wartime only (no spare catches left after the war ended?).

I agree completely with this assessment. I'll go further to say, that it's even quite possible that all the badges we see with "wartime compatible" hardware including the "C-shaped" catches in round wire and flat wire were in fact wartime produced but towards the end of the war, and Souval was simply peddling them for decades afterwards, often with newly applied finish and sometimes with an L/58 stamp. It's hard to know exactly when Souval stopped making fully "wartime compatible" specimens but it was certainly early on judging from the flagrantly different post-war specimens that turn up during the '57 era. There's an often quoted rumour that quite early on in the post-war period Souval's dies were destroyed -- something that's supported by the fact that they produced post-war swastika-bearing Blockade Breaker badges in the S&L design completely different from their own wartime design.

Regardless, I agree with Hubert that there don't seem to have been any leftovers after the war with the "?"-shaped catch that were refinished for post-war sale like with often see with the other two types of catch.

Best regards,
---Norm