Rare and + rare

[Arran]

Thanks very much for taking the time to share these great pics!

[alter-art]

... will we see those caps next weekend in Milan ?
Paolo

Yes!

[stonemint]

Terrific pics, Ron. Those orphans got to wear some top-quality headgear.

[Ron Weinand]

Mwp

Kid with dagger that is either NPEA or an MWP issue (see my second book for the school differences). thanks to Spronk

[wilhelm Saris]

Had not seen this post before (was much too busy with an exhibition), but what you see here is one of a kind (from the same Jungmann) and super rare. The rarest in headgear, I think. Such set was not ever offered in 65 years. The caps shown are guaranteed originals without any doubt!
REMIND THIS WHEN IN A WHILE SUCH CAPS ARE BEING OFFERED. The visored cap was not available in the archive of the orphanage, but the field-cap was.

About the orphanage there is a big article, which I wrote for Bender's "Military Advisor", volume 13, number 1 from winter 2001/2002. By now over ten years ago....The entire magazine is dedicated to this orphanage. For those interested a "must have"!

The caps shows are from the period after 1939, as when the orphanage was no longer an NPEA, but returned to the army on January 28, 1938 with the succession of the flags (the Reichskriegsflagge). During a visit of Göring in January 1939 he promised the boys would get a new uniform. This is what is shown with the photographs, the visored cap was for the walking-out dress.

The young guy with the visored cap from post 35 is from the Clyde Davis file and was upon the cover of the MA-magazine, along with the kid from post 46.
The magazine includes 93 photographs and drawings from the institution and the uniforms from the earliest periods up through the end of the war and also includes information about the girls at the institution......

As far as I know the guy from the caps, Dürringer is not one still having contact with his comrads from those days. He is not listed in the annual list of birthday's (I checked their magazines "Die Kuppel" - Rundbrief für alle ehemaligen des Grossen Militär-Waisenhaused Postdam 1724-1945 und seiner angeschlossenen Häuser from June 2012 through June 2013).

By the way: a friend of mine just bought the both caps!

[stonemint]

Had not seen this post before (was much too busy with an exhibition), but what you see here is one of a kind (from the same Jungmann) and super rare. The rarest in headgear, I think. Such set was not ever offered in 65 years. The caps shown are guaranteed originals without any doubt!
REMIND THIS WHEN IN A WHILE SUCH CAPS ARE BEING OFFERED. The visored cap was not available in the archive of the orphanage, but the field-cap was.

About the orphanage there is a big article, which I wrote for Bender's "Military Advisor", volume 13, number 1 from winter 2001/2002. By now over ten years ago....The entire magazine is dedicated to this orphanage. For those interested a "must have"!

The caps shows are from the period after 1939, as when the orphanage was no longer an NPEA, but returned to the army on January 28, 1938 with the succession of the flags (the Reichskriegsflagge). During a visit of Göring in January 1939 he promised the boys would get a new uniform. This is what is shown with the photographs, the visored cap was for the walking-out dress.

The young guy with the visored cap from post 35 is from the Clyde Davis file and was upon the cover of the MA-magazine, along with the kid from post 46.
The magazine includes 93 photographs and drawings from the institution and the uniforms from the earliest periods up through the end of the war and also includes information about the girls at the institution......

As far as I know the guy from the caps, Dürringer is not one still having contact with his comrads from those days. He is not listed in the annual list of birthday's (I checked their magazines "Die Kuppel" - Rundbrief für alle ehemaligen des Grossen Militär-Waisenhaused Postdam 1724-1945 und seiner angeschlossenen Häuser from June 2012 through June 2013).

By the way: a friend of mine just bought the both caps!

Great info--I will have to get that issue.

Here is a link to the hats Wim referred to:
https://www.weitze.net/detail/74/Sch...m__206274.html

[wilhelm Saris]

The two colors for the field-cap is an old tradition from the Imperial period, when the field-cap was dark-blue and the lower part was red. I thought this pattern was introduced in 1899.

[KC1]

Fantastic post and headgear - shows you learn something new as this is the first for me in seeing these type caps. Super pickup!

[Kreager]

Fantastic post and headgear - shows you learn something new as this is the first for me in seeing these type caps. Super pickup!

A first for me as well

[wilhelm Saris]

Would like to know where these both caps have been since Günther Dürminger died on October 15, 1969 at Knittelfeld near Graz in Austria and how they ended in Italy where they were obtained by Weitze.

Interesting to research back from 2013 through 1969, as I have been interested in this orphanage for many, many years and had/have many contacts with former students since about 1998.

It might be of interest to know that Ahlers from Potsdam was a concern that did not have an RZM-permission. This was not needed for the manufacturing of this type of visored cap. As far as I know most uniforms for the orphanage were manufacturerd in and around Potsdam. In 1939 all older boys had to line up for a tailor at the court of the institution, who chose specific boys from all the boys. During the next period these boys (known as Mass-Jungmann) had to visit the tailor to see if the uniform sizes were correctly tailored. It was not remembered how many tailor's were involved. The first new uniforms were ready in late 1939 (statement from a former student). As far as known at that moment only about 500 uniforms were tailored!

[alter-art]

Would like to know where these both caps have been since Günther Dürminger died on October 15, 1969 at Knittelfeld near Graz in Austria and how they ended in Italy where they were obtained by Weitze.

Interesting to research back from 2013 through 1969, as I have been interested in this orphanage for many, many years and had/have many contacts with former students since about 1998.

It might be of interest to know that Ahlers from Potsdam was a concern that did not have an RZM-permission. This was not needed for the manufacturing of this type of visored cap. As far as I know most uniforms for the orphanage were manufacturerd in and around Potsdam. In 1939 all older boys had to line up for a tailor at the court of the institution, who chose specific boys from all the boys. During the next period these boys (known as Mass-Jungmann) had to visit the tailor to see if the uniform sizes were correctly tailored. It was not remembered how many tailor's were involved. The first new uniforms were ready in late 1939 (statement from a former student). As far as known at that moment only about 500 uniforms were tailored!

Great research, I have buy the caps from a collector-dealer from Austria(near Graz).

[SMV]

The rare overseas cap can be seen in this wartime footage from Wochenschau.

Image of cap at 16:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLUbWxPkRnc

[Kurt]

Thanks SMV, here is a screen shot of that scene...

[wilhelm Saris]

Nice view at cap, as well as the shoulder-strap abbreviation MWP, which stands for Militär-Waisenhaus Potsdam.
The army eagle was in use, due to the bond and patronage with the army!

[J. M. C.]

Very unusual. It is interesting that the Postdam NPEA School continued issuing student daggers that were the same design, but with the orphanage designation after the school reverted to the Wehrmacht and as rare as these hats. I have only seen one of the MWP marked daggers, but photos of a student wearing the dagger in a formation of band members dated in1939 well after the change.

Kid with dagger that is either NPEA or an MWP issue (see my second book for the school differences). thanks to Spronk

This is a great thread so I think it's ok to resurrect it.

I picked up a fresh dagger recently with a hilt mark that I just couldn't figure out. I had been procrastinating on buying Ron's book "Waffenleite: Presenting NPEA Daggers of the Third Reich" so I contacted Ron to buy it.

Search after search on the web and finally this thread popped up. In the end it was still Ron's vast knowledge that helped identify my dagger. The hilt is marked "M.W.P. 174." for Militärwaisenhaus Potsdam and weapon number 174.

I know this is the Cloth Headgear Forum but I think it will be ok to add a dagger just this once.




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