Stickpins - E-Boat, U-Boat & Blockade

[Lubo]

Hey guys, as noted already the only unquestionable original here is the u boat mini!
The BB with 24mm size I would expect much higher quality of execution!
As for the 16mm 1st type e-boat, there is only one accepted (IMO) version, and I was lucky enough to acquire it a few years ago (will post pics later, as I am on the cell phone now)! The one posted here, regardless of the superior execution is highly suspicious for me ( almost too good to be true + unseen before = possible forgery)!
We need to stay open minded, but when it comes to spending lots of $, better stick to the known facts
KR
Lubo

[Rick C]

As for the 16mm 1st type e-boat, there is only one accepted (IMO) version, and I was lucky enough to acquire it a few years ago (will post pics later, as I am on the cell phone now)! The one posted here, regardless of the superior execution is highly suspicious for me ( almost too good to be true + unseen before = possible forgery)!

With all due respect, "superior execution" ... "almost too good to be true" equals a "possible forgery". I guess I have to limit myself to worn torn crap rather than pick up anything that's in great shape? That's a bit disappointing.

Is that the consensus?

Rick

[Lubo]

Hi Rick, this is NOT what I meant by my equation ( and it doesn't apply for minis - as they are still reasonably priced)! I'll make my self clearer by saying that your e boot mini is NOT seen by now (at least by me and few other souls), and in execution it exceeds the quality of the accepted originals, that's all!
The production and variety of different minis is not out of the "shady area of our collector's knowledge", so who knows what else we'll see.
Please, by no means, do not limit yourself to buying "crap", but the thing is that some originals are of a lower quality than their fake siblings out there

[Rick C]

That's a relief. I just can't picture myself with a metal detector and a shovel looking for beat up ground dug stuff so as to avoid the stuff that looks more pristine. Besides, I don't think the TSA would let me on the plane to get to the dig site and the Germans would probably lock me up if I got there.

RC

[Rick C]

Lubo - was hoping you could post the examples you were speaking of.

Was fortunate to have some emails that cleared up my understanding of the interchangeability of the terms "mini" and "stickpin".

I'm still a bit confused on the size question but it appears, from what I'm hearing, my E-Boat or S-boat pin is bigger than is normally seen therefore questionable. It also appears, from what I'm hearing, the pin, being attached to a plate wasn't done on a tombac badge thus rendering it questionable.

Would any other mini collector be able to show a tombac mini having a plate backing or a 24+mm high S-Boat pin similar to mine?

[Lubo]

Rick, I managed to build a small display for this thread's purposes!
Please note, the top row are the so called "16mm" - which in reality don't go higher than 13mm, the bottom row are a few 9mm (for comparison purposes)!
The white strip represents the height of your e-boot mini!
Keep in mind that the only accepted original "24mm-halbminiatur" of a KM badge is the one of the BB (shown a tombac '24mm' maker marked Schwerin example, which is barely over 20mm in reality)!
Hope that helps!
As for the reverse attachment of the pin - there are all sorts!

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Peter J. solved the mystery of these minis and I'm posting these images based on his lead. These are reproductions by Nicholas Morigi and are sold as such (in bulk, no less) on his websites. As both Peter and Lubo mentioned before, the size of the S-Boat mini (24.55 mm) was already a give-away.

Here are the Morigi S-Boat and Blockade Runner minis which he produced in both brooch pin and stick pin versions. Clearly a match for Rick's new minis (unfortunately).

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The U-boat mini on Morigi's site is a fuzzy photo but nevertheless is a good match to Rick's U-boat I think. Presumably all from the same vendor.

Cheers.
---Norm

[Norm F]

For future reference, here is the Morigi Fleet Badge mini.

[Lubo]

the u-boat is very dangerous

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

I decided to order one of the Morigi reproduction U-Boat pins to post here for reference. Remember these minis are readily available and sold even in bulk as inexpensive reproductions.

This is the Schickle/Mayer-type Pforzheim U-Boat mini design and it's quite well done. In hand it's fairly easy to tell it's a reproduction from the pitted texture to the reverse and the lack of sheer marks on the margins, but depending on the magnification of photographs it's really hard to tell it from a nice Tombak original on the smaller views. The pin length is about 31 mm from its tip to its point of attachment to the badge portion, and the overall height and width of the badge portion is 13.8 mm by 17.2 mm.

You'll notice that the pin on mine is not knurled whereas the photo from the website does have a knurled pin. That observation plus the different reverse finishes and base plates used on other Morigi minis suggests that there are differences between batches and there could be other variations of this U-boat out there.

One will have to beware and look carefully when buying "wartime" minis of this obverse design - originals do exist and they are pictured in Schickle's wartime catalog but one must be very careful from now on.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

And here's a U-Boat mini of the same Pforzheim design from Weitze's site. I'm presuming the Weitze example is an original (hopefully), and it seems to show a nice patina and oxidation of the solder. But you can see how dangerous the Morigi reproduction could be when you compare them side to side, especially if there are smoother variants out there.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Norm, thanks a lot for your great research work
Cheers,
Hubert

[Lubo]

Excellent work, Norm!