U-BOAT BADGE. Your help, please.

[julio65]

Hello.
I need your help with this U-boat badge, I think it´s good, but.....
Many thanks for your help.
Kind regards
Julio65

[Norm F]

Hi Julio,

That's the so-called 5-feather U-boat badge - the only type to have 5 horizontal feathers on the wings. They exist in both hollow tombak and solid zinc.
There has been debate as to whether some or all of these are wartime vs. post-war, but they have been pictured in publications at least as early as 1957 when it appeared in "Deutsche Auszeichnungen" by Dr. Kurt-Gerhard Klietmann, published by "Die Ordens-Sammlung" Berlin (see attached image showing a previously posted example of the eagle above the image from Klietmann's book).

More discussion here:
Unknown U-Boot Abzeichen

And found on a leather U-Boat jacket here:
U-boat badge help

Tombak version here:
hollowbacke uboat war badge
Opinions on this hollow back U-Boat (Have to admit, this one really doesn't look good...)
u boat (looks somewhat better...)

Both types in one thread (one oddly marked FL in an oval):
U Boat Badge Questions

Personally, my working theory is that these are produced by a Lüdenscheid maker. Stylistically, the eagle is reminiscent of the GWL U-Boat, the usual hardware resembles that of the F&Br and S&L U-Boats and the cutout around the cannon resembles Deumer zinc badges - all Lüdenscheid makers. One possible maker would be FLL since there is the odd FLL-attributed Destroyer and Minesweeper badge but no identified FLL U-Boat badge to date.

Having said all that, your badge does not have the usual setup and has what I consider to be a post-war setup. It's the same setup and tooling mark on the pin seen on S&L '57 badges. So that suggests to me either a wartime produced badge with late 1950's setup (possbily applied by S&L) or a complete post-war produced badge. I suspect the former, but there's no way to say for sure.

A very interesting badge, and thanks for posting.

Best regards,
---Norm

[AndyC]

Not often seen


Andy

[BubbaZ]

It's the same setup and tooling mark on the pin seen on S&L '57 badges.

I agree with Norm here, reverse hardware is very S&L-like and has Tom's '1957 scrape' on the main pin.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

I agree with Norm & Hubert. Even before reading the comments written, I thought to myself that I liked the look of the badge itself, and the finish but the hinge and pin remind me of the 1957 badges. I agree that it has the 57 scrape, but even if it didn't, there is something about that type of hinge that just reminds me of 1957 badges. I haven't been able to put my finger on it specifically, but it is different than the wartime hardware IMO. Perhaps its the width of the hinge, or the barrel thickness, not sure....

Tom

[Norm F]

Hi guys,
... I agree that it has the 57 scrape, but even if it didn't, there is something about that type of hinge that just reminds me of 1957 badges.
...

Hi Tom,

Like you say, even if the '57-scrape wasn't present, the hinge seems like classic '57 like this PAB without the scrape.

Julio, could you perhaps post some close-ups of the hinge?

Cheers.
---Norm

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Julio

Your U Boat badge is identical to mine from the front but hinge appears to be a bit narrower and the pin is round on yours and flat on mine (catch/plate are the same). I never doubted mine was original and have always found this variant to be one of the better sub badge designs around (but I am biased). Finish on yours is also better than on most specimens I have seen for sale.

The only possible issue would be the different mounting systems on badges made by the same maker at about the same time: all specimens appearing in Norm's attachements have flat pins but I'm not knowledgeable enough to venture any opinions

Regards

JC

[julio65]

Additional photos - hinge (replaced?)

[julio65]

Additional photos - more hinge (replaced?)

[julio65]

Additional photos - catch
I´m very grateful with the members are helping me.
Kind regards

[Norm F]

Additional photos - more hinge (replaced?)

Hi Julio,

I agree, the hinge/pin assembly looks replaced - nicely done too. It seems you can see the larger footprint of the original hinge block in the old solder, and the finish has been disturbed. The catch looks original though.

So it's quite probably a wartime badge with post-war hinge/pin assembly repair.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Jean-Claude]

Thanks for info Norm!

I've had my UBoot for a long time (mid 70's) and have been contemplating getting a good tombac specimen & maybe a hollow back (if I'm lucky) so I have been looking at these lately (in between flight badges) but I never noticed mine had 5 feathers instead of 4 like the others until you brought it up!

Much appreciated insight and background info thanks!

JC

[RichardT]

Various reverse hardware I've seen on the 5-feather badges.

Richard

[RichardT]

Various eagles I've seen.

Richard

[Norm F]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the collage postings.

Re: the reverse hardware compilation:

1) Is that just a scratch or some kind of mark on the center of the main pin on the bottom row, second from the left?

2) I assume that massive block hinge in the top row on the far right is once again replacement hardware. The rest of them show the standard common setup, also used by S&L and by F&BL on their zinc U-Boats, amongst others.

Re: the eagle compilation:

The bottom one with the blue background has no cutouts in the swastika and is in fact the hollow version of this badge.

Best regards,
---Norm