AWS or Juncker 1914 EK2

[streptile]

I can not stop buying these AWS/Juncker Wideframe EKs. This is my fourth with this same frame and core type. As a bonus, this one came on an original non-combatant ribbon, and it's got a great patina. The ring is unmarked, but these were available in some kind of alloy, .800 silver, or .925 silver. Judging this one in-hand, I'd say it's one of the two silver grades.

This is one of my very few favorite Imperial EK2 types, and it's often mis-identified as being made during WWII due to its size.

[Wik]

I commented in the wideframe thread but thought I would share my love for this type here as well! haha


VERY nice cross Trevor. A real looker!


Ryan

[Montgomery Burns]

well done ,,,,,do you have all core variation now ?

regards kay

[streptile]

Thanks, Ryan.

I like this one, too.

well done ,,,,,do you have all core variation now ?

Thanks, Kay.

Yes, I have all of AWS's cores -- of which I am aware.

Type 1:





Type 2:



This one is also found in the AS pillowbacks, and is usually non-magnetic. I like this magnetic example a lot.

Type 3, also shown above, which I personally have never found on an AWS marked cross, but I believe it's likely an AWS core nonetheless:



An EK2 with a Type 2 core is high on my wanted-list, but I've never seen one. Has anyone else?

[Ammersee]

I can not stop buying these AWS/Juncker Wideframe EKs.

Is AWS/Juncker the same company? I just read yesterday on this forum that Juncker did not make EK's. Now I'm confused. (as usual) Please enlighten me on the 1914 EK Juncker connection. Also, your Type 1 is stunning. Thanks, Ammersee

[Don D.]

AWS and Juncker were seperate companies. They were within 60mm mortar range of each other though.

[Wik]

AWS and Juncker were seperate companies. They were within 60mm mortar range of each other though.

Is that a new way of measuring distances in the metric system?

Ammersee, http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=392833&page=3 is where Trevor talks about the AWS/Juncker situation. I think you may have seen it already.


I'm no pro but I feel like (unless I misread Trevor's thread) Juncker did make EK pieces. SO I guess they could have sold them to AWS and others, but I would be hard pressed to understand why a company would only make parts and NEVER make ANY crosses themselves. Perhaps others can speak more intelligently on the subject to help clear this up.


Ryan

[streptile]

Hey Ammersee,

A very interesting question. In my mind it's not entirely clear what the relationship between AWS and Juncker was, but I am pretty sure that they exchanged, or supplied each other with, parts during WWI and the interwar years. Then AWS went out of the ODM business in 1941 (and likely out of business all together) -- this is a known fact. I believe that Juncker somehow acquired -- presumably they bought -- AWS's leftover stock. This theory is based on my own observation and, equally importantly, on observations by Micha AKA Mötörhead about which EK frames show up with which cores and which marks, when. It's something I intend to find the time to look into a little deeper. For now, though, I really can't say with any degree of certainty whether AWS or Juncker made a particular cross, if it's unmarked.

I just read yesterday on this forum that Juncker did not make EK's.

Do you remember specifically where you read that? I think that the theory that Juncker made no EKs before WWII is unlikely to be true, but it is true that I have never seen one marked for Juncker.

[Steve Campbell]

I had a 1914 EK1 with an AWS core and an L/12 mark on it that looked like a good mark, but with L/12 marks you never know. I do not have this anymore, but it may suggest a relationship between AWS and Junker. As this was an LDO mark, it may suggest if all is on the up and up that Junker bought up old AWS parts to make crosses and used them into WW2.

What did Junker make in WW1?

[streptile]

I had a 1914 EK1 with an AWS core and an L/12 mark on it ...

Hi Steve,

I've seen plenty of these, and I believe these marks are good. The existence of those specific crosses is one piece of the puzzle that leads me to conclude that Juncker bought up AWS's leftover stock after 1941.

This has Core 1, the same frame as the piece that opened this thread, as well, but a good Juncker mark and a WWII-era Juncker pin system.





I'm not 100% sure that Juncker made anything in WWI, but I have some strong suspicions that they did, and that they used the core referred to above as Type 3. This is all a bit speculative, but I'm sort of trying to sort through all the evidence and come to some sort of workable theory -- among 5 million other things I am sort of trying to do at the moment.

[streptile]

I also need to amend this statement...

Type 3, also shown above, which I personally have never found on an AWS marked cross, but I believe it's likely an AWS core nonetheless.

...with these photos, which I have in my files but just momentarily forgot about.

Photo credit goes to someone over on SDA, whose name escapes me at the moment.

[Kraal]

Hey Trevor.

Nice to see all of them. I´m pretty envy. I managed to grab an 1st and a second class, guess that´s enough for me of them (at the moment). I like the third core type (the one with NC-Ribbon) slightly more than the other ones. The oakleaves are always a beauty to see..

Shame that the Kaiserreich ended and we will never see such pieces with a beautiful anniversary oakleaves like on the 1870 ones. Would have fitted them well, too.

Thanks for showing!

greetings
Andy

[Alex K]

Hi Trevor. Nice work.
Is this also an AWS?
Regards, Alex

[Alex K]

Back..

[Montgomery Burns]

I think it is a AWS

nice one to

regards