VirtualGrenadier

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Unit identification shoulderstrap insignia

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Unit identification shoulderstrap insignia

    What unit is this shoulderstrap "slip on" slide insignia for?
    L = Lehr maybe? or Leichtes?
    or
    L = "Ersatz und ausbildungs" (training and replacement) component of the Regiment?
    So a staff member/instructor cypher perhaps?
    Its in white so Infantry. It is a regimental number, right?
    Thanks
    Nick
    Attached Files
    Last edited by NickG; 12-02-2008, 04:51 PM.

    #2
    Anybody?
    I found this on the web...
    If attached to the Panzer-Lehr Division, or field training unit of the Panzertruppen, the letter "L" would be worn.
    There were artillery training regiments which also wore the "L" cypher on their red piped shoulder boards and shoulder straps. Other mobile artillery and assault gun units could wear the number of their unit.
    This branch color is obviously white...not panzer, not artillery but rather infantry... Any ideas?

    I also found this info on the web...

    Grenadier-Regiment 261: Entstanden am 15. Oktober 1942 durch die Umbenennung des Infanterie-Regiments 261 und der 113. Infanterie-Division unterstellt. Das Regiment wurde im Januar 1943 in Stalingrad vernichtet. Neu aufgestellt am 21. März 1943 in Frankreich beim AOK 7 aus dem verstärkten Grenadier-Regiment 881 und Teilen des alten Regiments. Am 2. November 1943 wurde das Regiment aufgelöst, Teile des I. Bataillons kamen zum Grenadier-Regiment 51, der Rest des Regiments bildete die Regimentsgruppe 261.

    and

    Grenadier-Regiment 881 Aufgestellt am 1. März 1943 als verstärktes Grenadier-Regiment. Bildete im März 1943 im Westen das Grenadier-Regiment 261.

    Would a "Grenadier Regiment" be "Volksgrenadier" so light green farbe more appropriate? (not white)
    Last edited by NickG; 12-02-2008, 03:17 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Not quite as glamorous i'm afraid. It's Landesschützen bataillon 881, converted to Festungs bataillon 650 in Feb.1942, it carried out security duties in the Lofoten islands of North Norway.
      Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

      Comment


        #4
        Simon is right, although I have many times seen these advertised as insignia for Lehr units this is a Landesschützen device.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks guys! So this outfit: (again from the web)
          Landesschützen-Bataillon 881

          Feldpostnummern: keine ermittelt

          Das Landesschützen-Bataillon 881 wurde am 1. Januar 1941 in Saarburg, im Wehrkreis XII, aufgestellt. Das Bataillon wurde durch Umbenennung des III. Bataillon vom Infanterie- Regiment 642 zu 3 Kompanien aufgestellt. Das Bataillon wurde der Wehrkreis XII unterstellt. Nach der Aufstellung wurde das Bataillon weiter in Saarburg eingesetzt. Noch 1941 wurde das Bataillon nach Idar-Oberstein, ebenfalls Wehrkreis XII, verlegt. Am 10. Februar 1942 bildete das Bataillon das Festungs-Bataillon 650 für Norwegen.
          Last edited by NickG; 12-02-2008, 04:49 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            The original Gothic L slide that nickG posted is in fact Infantry Lehr.

            Latin L on white like the one attached is for Regional Defense Battalions (Landesschützenbataillone).

            This is a pretty common mistake and to compound the confusion there are a couple books out there which also misidentify the Gothic and Latin L device.
            Attached Files
            AUTHOR OF:

            sigpic

            GERMAN ARMY SHOULDER STRAPS AND BOARDS - 1933-1945

            Comment


              #7
              Dave put together some charts on the different shoulder strap & board devices:

              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/unif...ds/devices.htm
              AUTHOR OF:

              sigpic

              GERMAN ARMY SHOULDER STRAPS AND BOARDS - 1933-1945

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Guys, here are a humble pair of shoulder strap slip on's from my collection. These are Landesschützen-Bataillon ones.

                Landesschützen-Bataillon 642

                1. Aufstellung:
                * 26.6.1941 in Wetzlar, WK IX; Sicherungs-Bataillon 642 seit 1.6.1942;
                bildete 10.6.1944 das I./Sicherungs-Regiment 36 bei Borissow.

                2. Unterstellung:
                WK IX in Wetzlar; 15.7. 1941 WK XXI, Division 429 in Posen; 2.1.1942 Generalgouvernement in Warschau;
                16.3.1942 Heeresgruppe Mitte (Sicherungs-Brigade/Division 203).
                1944 Borissow

                3. Ersatz:
                9 Mühlbausen, Frankfurt, WK IX

                Cheers, Ade
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  OK so based on the Gothic letter type my slide is most likely from (infantry)Grenadier-Regiment 881, with the "L" meaning "Lehr" battalion (training and replacement)
                  and not from the "Landesschützen-Bataillon 881" after all, as the "L" is not a Roman letter type...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by PD Sergeant View Post
                    The original Gothic L slide that nickG posted is in fact Infantry Lehr.

                    Latin L on white like the one attached is for Regional Defense Battalions (Landesschützenbataillone).

                    This is a pretty common mistake and to compound the confusion there are a couple books out there which also misidentify the Gothic and Latin L device.
                    Fair enough but that still leaves the units identification and there was no infantry lehr unit numbered 881. In this case you can even discount Grenadier Regiment 881 as it simply wasn't around long enough.

                    Angolia of course states both gothic and latin and shows a couple of examples that cannot be anything other than Landesschützen. Davis also uses gothic for his LS example for what that's worth.
                    Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by NickG View Post
                      OK so based on the Gothic letter type my slide is most likely from (infantry)Grenadier-Regiment 881, with the "L" meaning "Lehr" battalion (training and replacement)
                      and not from the "Landesschützen-Bataillon 881" after all, as the "L" is not a Roman letter type...

                      No, a lehr unit was not a training and replacement unit but a special demonstration and instructional unit. In any case Gren.Rgt.881 existed for a matter of weeks, highly unlikely things like slip on unit numbers were even thought of and it was certainly no lehr unit.
                      Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Like I said, there has been some confusion about these two devices and the misidentifications in at least two books hasn't helped (Simon was able to ID both of them right off the bat!).

                        Simon - I know exactly what you're talking about. Jack identifies the devices both correctly and incorrectly, depending on which part of the book you're looking at. Which, in my opinion, does not lessen the credibility of his work. There are comparably few mistakes in relation to the amount of information in his book. By the way, what 'order of battle' book are you using?

                        NickG - right. Gothic L on white is Lehr and Latin L on white is Regional Defense Battalion (Landesschützenbataillone).

                        Take a look at the link I posted. Dave put together some charts on the different devices which may be easier to understand.
                        AUTHOR OF:

                        sigpic

                        GERMAN ARMY SHOULDER STRAPS AND BOARDS - 1933-1945

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Always interesting to see how the same subject can be approached from different angles.

                          In this case Sarge, i'm using Tessin as primary source. Although it's regarded as the best and standard work on Wehrmacht formations down to battalion level it's still a secondary source. This Festungs Btl. 650 into which Ls.Btl.881 changed in feb.42 i can of course pick up in original various gliederung from Norway as that's my main area of research. I try and cross-reference with original sources as far as possible but for 'big' ie. btl. on up sized units Tessin is pretty reliable.

                          I take it the use of the latin or gothic L comes from various orders stipulating what should be used? I'm wondering, if Davis and Angolia got it confused could it be that some units also got things confused? We know that rules were misinterpreted, bent or outright broken quite often when it came to uniforms and insignia.

                          The only other thing i can think of is if certain training personnel within a regular unit wore a gothic L , but that isn't right is it? The device was unit wide wasn't it?
                          Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

                          Comment

                          Users Viewing this Thread

                          Collapse

                          There is currently 1 user online. 0 members and 1 guests.

                          Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                          Working...
                          X