West Wall Medals

[Dez H]

Greetings Gentlemen
Lately it appears these have been flooding the online auctions. There was a post about these a few months ago but I don’t think we ever got to the bottom of the matter. This particular item appears totally unissued. Here are some pictures I would like to share. This medal is unmarked, and it appears good. However I think the packet and ribbon are the sour points. As I understand it the spelling on the reverse of the packet is the giveaway point. The ribbon also doesn’t feel right. It feels too modern and has that crinkle cut to it. Any definitive comments on this matter so we can put it to rest?

[Dez H]

Thanks in advance guys


Dez

[Kevin Sienkiewicz]

Hello Dez,

I purchsed a few, a while back, from everyones favorite dealer.
I am pretty confident these are good so I've attached photos of the packet and ribbon.
Sorry for the poor photos, my camera really blows at taking photos without natural light.

<p><img src="http://www.coreyssite.com/ww01.jpg" width="500" height="327"> </p>
<p><img src="http://www.coreyssite.com/ww02.jpg" width="500" height="298"> </p>

Now, I also have a suspect one which I picked up at Eban ages ago. The ribbon is certainly bad as it is wider than my originals ( 32.4mm ) and it fails the dreaded black light test in a huge way.
It also has a "shiny" look to it.
My originals are quite rigid and only 26mm wide.

I've seen a few examples where bad packets and / or ribbons are included with medals to help the price along a bit.

If you want photos of my suspect medal please let me know and I'll take some in the morning.

Cheers and Roo
Kevin S

[Bill M]

--I remember the discussion and think that I remember someone writing that the misspellings on the envelope in ONE case did not mean it was fake - just a typo. Am I remembering correctly? I don't want to be the source of bad info! Anyone?
--Regarding the 'crinkle-cut'. These were done with 'Pinking Shears', which have been available to tailors and such for at least a hundred years (Grandma was a seamstress ). I wouldn't worry too much about that.

[AndyD]

I purchased one of these medals with the packet a while ago,got it cheap so i thought it was worth the risk!Apparently the name of the town on the packet should be Schrobenhausen and not Schrobenhansen.I was told that the one with the wrong spelling was actually a fake but that the medal and the ribbon were genuine late war issue.Also there are a couple of dealers who are selling the ones with the spelling mistake,do they know something that we don't?
Regards,
yorkie

[christian]

There is no town with the name Schrobenhansen in germany. Of course the correct name of the town is Schrobenhausen, a small town not far away from munich.
Christian

[Chrvip68]

The paper bags with the Carl Poellath firm and the mispelled town Schrobenhansen instead of Schrobenhausen are very well made repro's using the correct type of BNP paper,always are in ecxellent condition.
The ribbons are repro too,crisp colors with the rough feeling when touched by the finger.
The medals are original! made of zinc and most of the times in worn to heavy worn condition.
I suppose that someone has find a large quantity of these medals
and decided to produce the ribbons and the packets for sale purposes.

[Warren O]

Chris and I dicussed the misspelling several months back but I'm still undecided because several well respected collector dealers state this appears on 50% of the Poellath packets. Its also stated "whats in a misspelling on a packet" considering the many flaws found on medals and badges themselves. These packets don't glow under blacklight are made exactly the same as any other packet of its type except for one letter in the town name. Look at the Juncker PAB with a chunck missing from its head, thats a major flaw. The packet is and always will be questionable but I'll keep mine.
Warren

[Dez H]

G’day Warren
Thanks for the information on these packeted medals. What mostly had me worried was there they seem to be appearing in vast quantities on ebay and epier. The ribbon feels bad and the packet I have my doubts about, but the medals appears 100% original. So maybe this is one of those things we will never know for sure. Maybe Chris’s theory on them being made to flog off a large quantity of unissued medals is correct. I fear as the fakers get better and better we may run into more situations like this cropping up. Thanks once again for the help.


Dez

[Rick Research]

The new fake ribbons very easily fail the blacklight test, the white flushing brilliant electric blue. Don't know about the packets, but I suspect the medals were rejected by 1944 quality control and barrels of these are indeed being "upgraded" for sale.

So old medals, ? envelopes, new ribbons seem to be the most common combination.

Years ago I had a "zinky" Westwall with NICE finish, in a packet that was for the 1941/42 RCM, with a pasted over label for the WWM on top. Don't remember the maker on the envelope, sorry. This was before blacklights, but I was suspicious of the ribbon on that one too, because of the feel.

Ribbons were supplied by different makers than the medals themselves, so these had to be put together back then at one factory or the other. Or now by whoever is adding fake ribbons to the late medals.

[Radcollector]

Hello,

I just thought I would pipe in with my two cents...I also bought one of these westwall medals on ebay 3 years ago.As soon as I recieved it I had doubts about the packet and ribbon.The packet is the same one pictured with Schrobenhansen spelled wrong.I havent messured the ribbon or blacklight tested it yet,I need to get my blacklight back.I would have to agree with Chris that someone probably produced the packets and ribbons to sell them,I do beleive the medal itself is original..I have seen a dutch auction were a unanimous seller was claiming he had 8,000 original merit cross 3rd class(a barrel??)with no ribbons.He was selling them for I think $4 a piece.If the man actually had a warehouse find or if he had 8,000 made who knows??I have also seen a man in canada selling rolls of "original ribbon"??I was in the same line of thinking as some of you,for $20 on a westwall medal you cant really go wrong.I would like to here more opionions about this subject.It was this medal and a wound badge that ended my medal buying (I bought four medals in a month,wound badge ,merit cross 2nd and 3rd,and the westwall)when i first started collecting 4 years ago and i have not bought one since!!this was due to me being suspicious of the wound badge and the westwall as well as the merit cross ribbons!!I have since bought many referance books as well as talk/listen to many old time collectors(this forums great!)look at originals when i get the chance ,so hopefully I can avoid some the hassles of getting ripped off when I do decide to start buying medals again


Yancy

[Rick Research]

There actually was/is a lot of never issued stuff out there.

When the Wall came down, there was a flood of stuff from East German cellars, and I saw huge hundreds of feet long rolls of never used ribbon still sealed with the original maker's glued tags. Of course, most of this stuff ends up snipped up by dealers.

Back in the 1970s I got a roll of never issued bevo Kriegsmarine eagles that a then-teenaged French girl had looted, with cap tallies etc, from the main German supply depot in Paris in August 1944. Not knowing any better, those eagles went, one buy one, over a lot of years for terrific prices (back then) of like 3 or 4 bucks.

About 1968 or 1969 a cache of never shipped Afrikakorps pith helmets turned up, and were sold for $25 apiece, mail order. Couldn't give them away. Remember, old guys?

The bottom line is that ORDINARY stuff issued in mass volumes is not surprising when odd clumps of original remnants show up. It's when the rare and "exotic" suddenly starts showing up in large quantities of never-before-seen "variants" that one has to say: huh?

[Richardxyz]

Having read with interest the comments of others I checked out my West Wall medals. The first one I bought of an online auction is giving me cause for concern. Firstly its in excellent condition I mean almost perfect retaining a lot of colour, which I would best describe as sandy. Secondly, the ribbon is soft to touch and 30mm wide, I've compared it to some others I have which I am confident are original and they appear to have the same detail, but theres something not quite right. If the medal had been in poorer condition I would be inclined to agree with others and think that the ribbon is fake but the medal is original but know I think they're both repro. has anyone else bought a mint-looking Westwall with a 30mm ribbon?
Theres was no Schrobenhansen packet with this one, so I am a bit stuck.

[Bob Hritz]

With thousands of original West Wall medals available, and no one to buy them, why would anyone bother to fake them? They will be around in quanty for decades. I would think the fakers would have better wares to copy.

Bob Hritz

[Paul Massucci]

Bob,
when it comes to collecting you have probably forgotton more info than I even know and usually I agree with most of what you say but not this time.
There are also thousands of black wound badges around yet you can buy repros of them. Same goes for such common awards as the SA military sports badge and the Flower War campaign medals.
What really does puzzle me is that one site that offers the repro wound badges charges $15 for the 3rd class which is almost the same price you can find an original for.
I agree there are many unissued original out there and have been for a long time, I picked my West Wall from Globe in Bkrooklyn back in the early 70's , advertised as Unissued with packet for around $3.
They have been faking things like the IAB' PAB's etc since I was kid when originals where still plentyful. It was for whatever reason profitable to do so back then just as it is now.
I can point you to sites that sell "Mueseum Quality Reproductions" etc. etc., whatever you call them they are still FAKES, but they are out there and just about every award that was made originally is being made today, whether it's a black wound badge or an RK with oakleaves ,swaords and diamonds.