Charlemagne Tabs...

[Christopher G.]

So I have been trying to study tabs and I have only been able to come up with 1 Charlemagne tab and was wondering if this one was acceptable? This one is for sale on oakleafmilitaria.com

Regards,
Chris G.

[themilitaryman]

Looks good to me

[Ludwig]

A good one!

[Bob Hritz]

Nice original

Bob Hritz

[wolfcastle]

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

the "Frankreich" brigade, the "Charlemagne" brigade/division or the "Charlemagne" battalion in Berlin NEVER ever wore that collar tab.

The subject was already discussed there.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=115738

This is the collar tab for the 29 SS Division (russiche n°1).
There is a printing error in the 1944 Soldatenfreund (which was printed in late 1943, when "only" 1500 to 2000 french volunteers were training in the SS-Ausbildungslager Sennheim (recrutment campaign started in the summer).
A division-size unit was planned, but finally only 2500 volunteers finished their training, and an heavy battalion-size unit fighted in Galicia.

In Galicia the unit had the "SS" runes on the collar tab.
In Pomerania, most had the "SS" runes, but many also had no runes at all.
In Berlin, the 300-330 volunteers had dot pattern jacket, therefore i don't know if they also had their usual grey jacket with ranks.

One of the most famous available item is the jacket of M. Soulat (Franciste / OT / KM then SS) who had it when he surrended in early May 1945 (part of the Boudet-Gheusi unit retreating to the west).

The only french item confirmed is the the "Charlemagne" armband.

See You

Vince

[Ludwig]

Hi,

the "Frankreich" brigade, the "Charlemagne" brigade/division or the "Charlemagne" battalion in Berlin NEVER ever wore that collar tab.

The subject was already discussed there.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=115738

This is the collar tab for the 29 SS Division (russiche n°1).
There is a printing error in the 1944 Soldatenfreund (which was printed in late 1943, when "only" 1500 to 2000 french volunteers were training in the SS-Ausbildungslager Sennheim (recrutment campaign started in the summer).
A division-size unit was planned, but finally only 2500 volunteers finished their training, and an heavy battalion-size unit fighted in Galicia.

In Galicia the unit had the "SS" runes on the collar tab.
In Pomerania, most had the "SS" runes, but many also had no runes at all.
In Berlin, the 300-330 volunteers had dot pattern jacket, therefore i don't know if they also had their usual grey jacket with ranks.

One of the most famous available item is the jacket of M. Soulat (Franciste / OT / KM then SS) who had it when he surrended in early May 1945 (part of the Boudet-Gheusi unit retreating to the west).

The only french item confirmed is the the "Charlemagne" armband.

See You

Vince

Well, in SS´own pocket almanac 1945, the above shown collar tab is for Charlemagne... However, I don´t doubt that they never were issued, but this pattern was certainly intended for the french volunteers!

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

i made a mistake this is the 1945 Soldatenfreund (printed in autumn 1944).

At least if it was planned, no one amongst the vets ever heard of that.
The main historian & vet (schreiber and translator at the HQ) M. Robert Soulat never heard of that at all.

Is it possible that with all the born-dead SS units in 1944, the wrong collar tab was listed for the Frenchs ?

The pioneer section that came back from Prague with the "Charlemagne" armband is a well known story. But no one ever talk about a special collar tab. I think that such a big news would have been known by every french volunteer in Wildflecken. We don't have to forget that many "volunteers" came from the LVF, KM but also the Milice, and many were very unhappy to wear the "SS collar tab". The fact that a special collar tab was manufactured would have been known, and many guys from the Milice or other french units would have done a lot to have them.
Another thing : i can't imagine the SS-Hauptamt ready to accept the french SS to wear the "celtic cross" at all. It was an irish emblem, and the german authorities did their best to stop all the nationalisms from Bretagne (west of France) during the war. The "celtic cross" was also a too religious emblem for the SS, but also a political emblem for the royalists (this is the emblem of the "Action Française"), and many SS or french collaborators were against the (french) catholic church (which was a bit too much against the collaboration in 1944, and was more and more supporting the forbidden rescue of the Jews).
Maybe it was Krukenberg who decided to avoid that collar tab which was a bit too political (he asked to avoid any politics in Wildflecken, even the reading of "Devenir" the french SS newspaper of Marc Augier).

It would be great to know more about the 1945 Soldatenfreund sources... Or if any other official document give informations on that collar tab.

See You

Vince

[besslein]

Charlemagne like Handschar are "exotic" units so we well never know for sure ....

[Dmv]

This is the collar tab for the 29 SS Division (russiche n°1).

This is news for me... based on what?

[Ludwig]

Hi,

i made a mistake this is the 1945 Soldatenfreund (printed in autumn 1944).

At least if it was planned, no one amongst the vets ever heard of that.
The main historian & vet (schreiber and translator at the HQ) M. Robert Soulat never heard of that at all.

Is it possible that with all the born-dead SS units in 1944, the wrong collar tab was listed for the Frenchs ?

The pioneer section that came back from Prague with the "Charlemagne" armband is a well known story. But no one ever talk about a special collar tab. I think that such a big news would have been known by every french volunteer in Wildflecken. We don't have to forget that many "volunteers" came from the LVF, KM but also the Milice, and many were very unhappy to wear the "SS collar tab". The fact that a special collar tab was manufactured would have been known, and many guys from the Milice or other french units would have done a lot to have them.
Another thing : i can't imagine the SS-Hauptamt ready to accept the french SS to wear the "celtic cross" at all. It was an irish emblem, and the german authorities did their best to stop all the nationalisms from Bretagne (west of France) during the war. The "celtic cross" was also a too religious emblem for the SS, but also a political emblem for the royalists (this is the emblem of the "Action Française"), and many SS or french collaborators were against the (french) catholic church (which was a bit too much against the collaboration in 1944, and was more and more supporting the forbidden rescue of the Jews).
Maybe it was Krukenberg who decided to avoid that collar tab which was a bit too political (he asked to avoid any politics in Wildflecken, even the reading of "Devenir" the french SS newspaper of Marc Augier).

It would be great to know more about the 1945 Soldatenfreund sources... Or if any other official document give informations on that collar tab.

See You

Vince

I don´t doubt that the french volunteers never saw that collar tab or even heard about it. The Germans had more important things to deal with at that time (end of 1944/45).
It´s not a celtic cross. It´s a nordic sunwheel turned 45°. What connection it has to France I don´t know, but perhaps I am just ignorant at that point.

[Rene Chavez]

There is no connection of this celtic cross to the Charlemagne formation period. The only tab that was being considered was the "Jean d'Arc" tab.

Rene Chavez
http://foreignvolunteerlegion.com/GermanInsignias1.htm

[Ludwig]

And what is this then? From the SS pocket calender 1945.

[Rene Chavez]

I believe it was a printing error. The celtic cross has no relation to the Charlemagne formation. It could be more related to the Milice and the Charlemagne did have lots of former Milice members.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

[Ludwig]

It´s not a celtic cross.