Grundsteinlegung Volkswagenwerk Tinnie

[torstenbel]

Hi there, can you help me? Is this Tinnie genuine or not? I have found a couple of websites offering fake ones, but none compare to this one and I cannot find any reference pics for any 'confirmed' genuine ones. The main difference between mine and the fake once offered is that with mine the words are filled in with red paint and the reverse side has a kind of laquering on it...can you help? Please? And if genuine, any idea how much they sell for these days? Cheers, Torsten.

http://www.torsten-german-militaria..../om052k-01.jpg
http://www.torsten-german-militaria..../om052k-02.jpg

[JaimeH]

Yours seems to be RZM marked. Interesting. Mine has the pin running vertical and is maker marked GES GESCH. I can't help on authenticity on either.

[torstenbel]

Yours seems to be RZM marked. Interesting. Mine has the pin running vertical and is maker marked GES GESCH. I can't help on authenticity on either.

Jaime, thanks for reply. Yes , it is RZM marked and it has Ges. Gesch. on it, but that is not the maker, that abbrev. stands for gesetzlich geschuetzt und basically means 'protected by law', i.e. copyright...Cheers, Torsten.

and here is the reverse side of mine:

[JaimeH]

Here's Mine.

[JaimeH]

Back

[torstenbel]

Jamie, thanks for the pics...have you previously had any opinions on it?? The surface impurities you have do not look like they come from ground corrosion attack or other ageing related influences...but they look like they have been there from the day it was made...as per my previous message, I still do not have any confirmed original pics to compare with, but I would have steered well clear of the one you have there... what do you think??...
Cheers, Torsten.

Here's Mine.

[Don Scowen]

Torsten,

What worries me about your tinnie is the pin keeper. This thin oval type is generally found on modern copies.

From what little I know about tinnies, this one is heavily faked.

Cheers
Don

[JaimeH]

I bought it as a gag gift for my wife when she bought her VW. I don't have any idea on the authenticity (or care). I would be more suspicious of the RZM marking on a tinnie that was given to the factory workers on celebration of a new auto.

[torstenbel]

Don, yes I agree. That tinnie was produced for wear on the actual day of the opening of the works only and it is very unlikely that the original would have been made with a heavy pin like that...it would almost certainly only have had the safety pin type needle...and the bock and the needle on Jaime's do look new and do not appear to suit go with the rest of the tinnie at all...but to me, the most important thing are the strong surface impurities...Cheers, Torsten.

PS: I still do not know if mine is genuine or not...

Torsten,

What worries me about your tinnie is the pin keeper. This thin oval type is generally found on modern copies.

From what little I know about tinnies, this one is heavily faked.

Cheers
Don

[torstenbel]

Don, mine is the one with the safety pin needle and not the pinback one...that is Jaime's...Cheers, Torsten.

Torsten,

What worries me about your tinnie is the pin keeper. This thin oval type is generally found on modern copies.

From what little I know about tinnies, this one is heavily faked.

Cheers
Don

[torstenbel]

Jaime, you are right...I am also suspicious about the RZM logo...which is one of the reasons that I put it up for discussion on the forum and that is why I am desperately trying to find pics of a confirmed original...but to date..no luck...btw, the badge was not just given to factory workers...it was also given to invited guests at the opening and that was the top cream of Third Reich Germany ... so, it may well be possible that badge was commissioned by the NSDAP and, therefore, fell under RZM regulations...but, I do not know..that is just one possible theory for discussion and also as far as I know the Volkswagen Works were national, i.e. state owned...another possible reason why the RZM got involved... surely someone out there must have the answers...please help... Cheers, Torsten.

I bought it as a gag gift for my wife when she bought her VW. I don't have any idea on the authenticity (or care). I would be more suspicious of the RZM marking on a tinnie that was given to the factory workers on celebration of a new auto.

[sjl]

Jaime, you are right...I am also suspicious about the RZM logo...which is one of the reasons that I put it up for discussion on the forum.

I don't know about this specific pin, but it could have fallen under the RZM "M9" code for tinnies and day badges. The VW was a "KdF Wagen" associated with the DAF (hence the gear wheel), which was under the RZM.

BUT.... If your was original it should have an "M9/XX" RZM number to go with the logo, not just "GES. GESCH." Plus, that's a pretty wonky RZM logo. The splayed legs of the "M" is a good indication that it's a fake as well.

I'd pass.

[Don Scowen]

I don't know about this specific pin, but it could have fallen under the RZM "M9" code for tinnies and day badges. The VW was a "KdF Wagen" associated with the DAF (hence the gear wheel), which was under the RZM.

BUT.... If your was original it should have an "M9/XX" RZM number to go with the logo, not just "GES. GESCH." Plus, that's a pretty wonky RZM logo. The splayed legs of the "M" is a good indication that it's a fake as well.

I'd pass.

Stephen,

Would you say that it looks cast? Look at the cogs from the reverse, if it was stamped as with other badges of the time it they be more even & not tapered.

Torsten,

It is your badge that I meant when I said that the pin keeper looks modern.

Cheers
Don

Cheers
Don

[torstenbel]

Steven, you're probably right about the logo and yes, the Kaefer was the original KdF Wagen and that is why I think that the genuine article might well have had the RZM logo on it...but mine does not an M-code...would still be interested in seeing pics of a confirmed original one before making up my mind about mine... Cheers, Torsten.

I don't know about this specific pin, but it could have fallen under the RZM "M9" code for tinnies and day badges. The VW was a "KdF Wagen" associated with the DAF (hence the gear wheel), which was under the RZM..

[torstenbel]

Don, I think it has been cast and then that strange lacquer stuff on the reverse was applied and then I think the RZM logo, the gesetzlich geschuetzt and the unknown number behind were stamped into it...sounds weird, but the RZM logo and other letters on the back just look to sharp to have first been cast and then covered in some kind of lacquer... I certainly have never seen anything like that on any tinnie...fake or original...have you? Cheers, Torsten.

Stephen,

Would you say that it looks cast? Look at the cogs from the reverse, if it was stamped as with other badges of the time it they be more even & not tapered.