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    #1

    Full range of 'AS in triangle' Minesweeper variants

    Gents,
    As I managed to gather in my collection full range of 'AS in triangle' Minesweeper variants, I would like to share with you these beautiful badges made by yet unknown Gablonz maker. These include:
    - unmarked tombak;
    - unmarked zincer, 1st eagle pattern;
    - marked zincer, 2nd eagle pattern;
    - unmarked zincer, 2nd eagle pattern.

    First comes unmarked tombak badge.
    Cheers,
    Hubert
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    #2
    Unmarked zincer, 1st eagle pattern.
    H.
    Attached Files

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      #3
      Marked zincer, 2nd eagle pattern.
      H.
      Attached Files

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        #4
        maker's mark on marked zincer, 2nd eagle pattern.
        H.
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          #5
          and the last, 4th variant - unmarked zincer, 2nd eagle pattern.
          Cheers,
          Hubert
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #6
            Nice done BubbaZ


            Andy

            Comment

              #7
              Thanks Andy
              Now I am 'working' on RKs but still miss 3 out of 9 known Karneth variants.
              Cheers,
              Hubert

              Comment

                #8
                Hi Hubert,

                Very nice set of minesweepers.

                But you're not yet finished collecting your Scholze-attributed badges. You're missing 3 variants:
                1) The unmarked 1st pattern eagle with the "early" catch crimp variant.
                2) The marked 2nd pattern eagle (Type 1 mark) with the "early" catch crimp variant.
                3) The marked 2nd pattern eagle (Type 1 mark) with classic catch crimp and unflawed reverse.

                Here's a compilation of those 3 for you to look out for. I only have the marked "early" catch crimp variant.

                Your marked "AS in triangle" which you posted is the Type 2 maker mark which is associated with the linear flaws on the reverse of the water plume as well. These flaws developed over time and are less prominent on earlier examples. You can see the differences between the Type 1 and the Type 2 maker marks in the attached comparison.

                Best regards,
                ---Norm
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                  #9
                  Here's your Type 2 maker mark badge and another example showing the characteristic linear flaws on the reverse.

                  Cheers.
                  ---Norm
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                    #10
                    collector's work is never done... You've ruined my peace of mind in this area

                    Seriously, awsome material Norm Thanks a lot! I did not realize that there is more systematic characteristics yet not described within these 'AS in triangle' group of Minesweepers. This knowledge is very compelling but in my collection I'd better stick to our reference table, otherwise I'll have to robb a few banks

                    BTW, are you saying that the marked 2nd pattern eagle with Type 2 maker's mark exists exclusively with the "early" catch crimp variant and and flawed reverse?

                    Cheers,
                    Hubert
                    Last edited by BubbaZ; 08-26-2011, 05:19 AM.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by BubbaZ View Post
                      ...
                      BTW, are you saying that the marked 2nd pattern eagle with Type 2 maker's mark exists exclusively with the "early" catch crimp variant and and flawed reverse?

                      Cheers,
                      Hubert
                      Hi Hubert,

                      No, the "early" catch crimp variant is associated only with the Type 1 maker mark (as far as I can see so far). But it can also be found on the unmarked 1st Pattern eagle (that's why you have two of those to look for ). I assumed this crimp is an earlier version because it's associated with a narrower wire catch that was a bit loose in the crimp -- seemed less secure, and therefore had to be improved.

                      The marked 2nd pattern eagle with the Type 2 maker mark (like yours) always has the classic catch crimp and variable degrees of the linear flaws in the reverse surface.

                      Best regards,
                      ---Norm
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Just when I thought I had a handle on the variants of the "AS in Triangle" MS badges, Norm has to stick his nose in, with his extraordinary eye for detail and anal analysis and blow the whole deal!!

                        As always, great work Norm. Its frustrating as to WHY there would be such small changes such as the two different maker marks, but thanks to Norm's great analysis, there is no doubt these changes occurred for some reason.

                        Tom
                        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
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                        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
                          Just when I thought I had a handle on the variants of the "AS in Triangle" MS badges, Norm has to stick his nose in, with his extraordinary eye for detail and anal analysis and blow the whole deal!!

                          As always, great work Norm. Its frustrating as to WHY there would be such small changes such as the two different maker marks, but thanks to Norm's great analysis, there is no doubt these changes occurred for some reason.

                          Tom
                          Hi Tom,

                          It's what I love to do!

                          To speculate further on the two maker marks, they're also slightly different than the other "AS in triangle" marks on other badge types, so it seems that each time they made a new reverse die they would hand engrave the mark into the reverse die, resulting in a slightly different rendition each time. In contrast, I think Schwerin probably used a standard punch to place his text mark in the reverse die since it's much more consistent across die changes.

                          In my view, the "AS in triangle" minesweeper was a large enough production to require more than one die set and hence more than one reverse die maker's mark. Same as R.K. with his multitude of reverse die markings.

                          Best regards,
                          ---Norm

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Gents,
                            As I prefer to work on tables here is the summary of Norm's conclusions. I also enclose a table with dimensions.
                            Cheers,
                            Hubert
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by BubbaZ; 08-26-2011, 09:43 AM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by BubbaZ View Post
                              Gents,
                              As I prefer to work on tables here is the summary of Norm's conclusions. I also enclose a table with dimensions.
                              Cheers,
                              Hubert
                              Hi Hubert,

                              You have an organizational gift, my friend!

                              I'd suggest slightly re-arranging the order to place the Tombak version as number one.

                              Cheers.
                              ---Norm

                              Comment

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