SS para smock

[John Hodgin]

Hi again Frank,

No, it wasn't mine nor did I buy it. I'm strictly a Luft. collector. IMHO the eagle was sewn to the chest in the manner of Luft smocks from that tradition, ie. Airborne status. Remember, Batt. 500 and 800 mostly wore Luftwaffe jump uniforms and equipment.

I also think there are very few real ones (that we know of) surviving. A very rare piece of history. I don't remember the price, Chris or Willi may, but it was justly expensive.
John

[JohnB]

I think the price was 25k.

John

[Mike C]

Hello,

As a W-SS cloth collector - not a FJR collector - would say that there is little question that these are legitimate pieces (with the eagle on the chest, not sleeve) but most don't think these were ever issued. Speaking for myself, I would rather have a plain and worn tunic rather than some esoteric piece (parasmock, liebermuster tunic, etc) that saw little or no service before the war's end. Now give me a period photo of a W-SS parasmock in service (and yes I accept that the liebermuster pattern was issued before war's end), than I think you would have greater interest. Best regards,

Mike

[Ludwig]

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Has anyone seen a wartime photo of a smock like this being worn?

I´m not trying to be smart, but using the same logic as when speaking, for example, about the Luftwaffe Panzerkampfabzeichen, those smocks can´t be original.

[DAZAR]

enclosed are more photo's ss panzer pants, and waffen ss series postcards the vet kept in a album. he kept bragging how rare the postcards were, but i had my peepers set on the camo set.I'm a 100% believer in the ss para smocks, the vet broke down crying talking about the war, and the whole ordeal was geniune. he set a price on the whole items that i bought it for a song. i feel that these smocks were very late war, and the germans had visions in mind about great ss para divisions saving the war. there was probably a bin full of these somewhere, and some soldiers decided to wear some out in the field to save there a**.

david

[DAZAR]

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[DAZAR]

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[Jürg]

SS Para smockks

Hi all

well as far as I remember correctly there are some SS dot pattern smocks in the museum of Bastogne/Belgium. As far as I remember there is a short part written about the Bastogne SS smocks in Robin Lumsdens "Collector's Guide to the Waffen-SS" and the Bastogne museum.
I am quite new into the Fallschirmjäger collecting but as Ludwig said; I really have my doubts about the SS dot pattern smocks because I have never seen a wartime photo showing such a smock in action so far.

just my 2 cents

[John Hodgin]

Jürg and Ludwig,

I doubt either of you have seen photos of tropical smocks in wear. Are they then not authentic either?

John

[Lloyd I.]

This is an age old debate about ss para smocks. There is a seperate debate once you get past the photo argument about the eagle placement on these smocks.

I for one hold the few examples known to exist as genuine.

[John Hodgin]

Not bragging, just facts

Willi, Chris, and I have been studying WWII German jump smocks for decades,... each, and untill recently, quite independently. Between us we have over 60 years experience with jump smocks. This involves years of close attention to zippers, snaps, fabric, breast eagles, construction methods, makers, etc.. We are in agreement on details about smocks that we each learned seperately on our own. The authentic SS jump smocks meet all these correct criteria.

However, as with other jump smocks, there are excellent fake SS smocks out there.

[Chris]

Jonnie is right. I don't think there is any serious debate among knowledgeable collectors at this point that SS smocks were manufactured prior to May 1945. What remains a point of discussion is whether any were actually issued and worn in the field, as most, if not all, of the 6-8 examples known in the United States came from the Dachau depot. In starting this thread, I was hoping for some discussion of the smock being offered by Helmut Weitze. I think the interesting thing to emerge, however, is the veteran's story about taking one from a soldier coming out of a trench. If true -- and veteran's memories need to be taken with a grain of salt -- it's some of the best anecdotal evidence I've heard in 25 years of the actual issue of SS para smocks. I suspect someday, somebody will find a photograph of it, just as photos have turned up over the years of FJR3 and SS-FJ cufftitles actually being worn, however temporarily, on a uniform during the war.

[Glenn McInnes]

Is there not documented Vet evidence that some of these SS smocks were in fact taken from storage buildings outside of the Dachau camp.


Glenn

[Aave Johns]

Leibermuster

Hello,

As a W-SS cloth collector - not a FJR collector - would say that there is little question that these are legitimate pieces (with the eagle on the chest, not sleeve) but most don't think these were ever issued. Speaking for myself, I would rather have a plain and worn tunic rather than some esoteric piece (parasmock, liebermuster tunic, etc) that saw little or no service before the war's end. Now give me a period photo of a W-SS parasmock in service (and yes I accept that the liebermuster pattern was issued before war's end), than I think you would have greater interest. Best regards,

Mike

I am yet to see a photo of Erbsenmuster '44 jump smocks being used in combat, but this shouldn't really be any suprise as they are as rare as rocking horse dung in the first place, and not every SS unit had a photographer tailing them. Chances are these smocks would have been worn in ad-hoc battle groups anyway. I will ad though that as rare as leibermuster is, I have seen one photo of several grenadiers wearing it in what appears to scratch unit. I would say that they were a cadre for a Volksturm unit judging from the elderly gent on the left of the photo, and a youth on the right. But I do agree that a photo, be it front line, training or at rest, would finally put to rest a great deal of debate on the wear of this particular style of bone-sack.

[Paris Gun]

I seem to recall a book that was a collection of Waffen SS related combat pictures, and there was a photo of the raid on Tito's headquarters. One of the pics was a W/SS para with a dot camo smock. Does anyone else have this book? Am I delusional?

Jonnie is right. I don't think there is any serious debate among knowledgeable collectors at this point that SS smocks were manufactured prior to May 1945. What remains a point of discussion is whether any were actually issued and worn in the field, as most, if not all, of the 6-8 examples known in the United States came from the Dachau depot. In starting this thread, I was hoping for some discussion of the smock being offered by Helmut Weitze. I think the interesting thing to emerge, however, is the veteran's story about taking one from a soldier coming out of a trench. If true -- and veteran's memories need to be taken with a grain of salt -- it's some of the best anecdotal evidence I've heard in 25 years of the actual issue of SS para smocks. I suspect someday, somebody will find a photograph of it, just as photos have turned up over the years of FJR3 and SS-FJ cufftitles actually being worn, however temporarily, on a uniform during the war.