Interesting ..... Souval vs St&L ( Spanish Cross )

[Matthieu]

Hi guys,

Although the Spanish Cross does not exist in the 1957 form ( lets get that out of the way first ), it shows an interesting link between Souval & St&L as postwar producer of badges.

I purchased the SCiS some time ago, as affordable alternative to the real deal and recently added the SCiG as well .

Whilst the SCiS is attributed to St&L, the SCiG has the L/58 Souval mark on it.
Upon closer inspection of my HD snapshots, both are matching in hardware .

The only differences I could spot on these are :

1. SCiS ( St&L ) has the swastika cut out on the eagles - the SCiG ( Souval ) does not.
2. SciS has different style of pin versus the SCiG ( which also has the L/58 mark ).

Nevertheless the quality and finish on both pieces is simply exquisite .

Clearly, yet another sign that both St&L & Souval worked together on these, then surely why not do the same on the 1957 awards ???
I guess St&L were the largest manufacturer postwar, hence I can only assume they delivered to Souval, whom then finished their badges at own level of finish.

Would love to see your input on this issue ...... .

Grtz
Mathijs

[Matthieu]

Some shots of the backside ....

[Matthieu]

Shots of the sword handles and eagles ..... clear view on the different finish on the swastika ...

[Matthieu]

Swastika disc plate neatly attached .....

[Matthieu]

Shot of one of the side arms ...

[Matthieu]

Hinge block ...

[Matthieu]

Catch .....

[jonathancol]

I thought that some Souvals had cutout swas as well. Nice badges!

[Matthieu]

Last shots for now ....... thanks for looking and commenting .

[Nigel N]

Hi Mathijs!!
Firstly, let me say what great, quality looking Spanish Crosses both of these are!!! Really Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On to your main point about S&L and Souval's co-operation etc.
I dont think we know anywhere near the whole story of what went on between makers, and not just S&L and Souval, but, it seems to me, between S&L, and just about every other maker, certainly Assmann and Deumer had links with S&L for parts/dies and/or hardware i reckon!
The hardware on your Souval SC loks to be all S&L, the hingeblock, catch, and the pin! That pin style is also found on Souval's blank core EK1's often MM'd L/58 as it is on your SC, i still think that pin is also S&L, but it does'nt seem to be found on many of S&L's own pieces for some reason? But i have seen it on a few!!!
I think as time went on, Souval got more and more parts, especially hardware from S&L, the last of the blank core EK1's were pretty much S&L products with only the core IMO being actually made by Souval.
So your 2 super Spanish crosses Mathijs, are, to me, a great example as you said of either dies or maybe more likely parts being supplied by S&L to Souval, and then finished and MM'd by them to be sold as their own products!!!
Thanks for showing!!!!clap5.gif
-Nigel

[Seewolf]

Two great pieces

The difference to wartime ones is, for my eyes, only the price and that these were made postwar.

Sadly Souval saved one working step....the non cut out swaz looks really better on the silver S&L.

Now to the question.....which one is earlier? Normally i´d say S&L but as we think that mm Souvals are "early" i am not sure about that.

But nevertheless two great pieces and IMO collectable

[Mike Yokum]

Some lovely pieces Mathijs!

The link between S&L and the other post war manufacturers, is unmistakable and these two pieces clearly illustrate that.

Thanks for sharing them.

[xmember]

Hi Mathijs,

I have a beautiful TR bronze spanish cross - just mint. But that is it because the silver and gold are just our of my realm. Now you are showing another option. Really nice.

Thanks for showing.
Regards
Rudy

[grueni1208]

Both crosses are by Souval, only the swas are different.
SuL crosses used another eagle design.

[Nigel N]

Both crosses are by Souval, only the swas are different.
SuL crosses used another eagle design.

Hi Daniel, thanks for your opinion on these crosses, where Souval used all S&L hardware, it can sometimes be difficult to work out who the actual maker was!
Do you have an example of an S&L postwar Spanish cross so we can compare?
Thanks!
-Nigel