RK 800 4 opinions please

[Patrick W]

Hi Guys

I have had this cross come in amongst a lot of items and haven't been able to find another marked in this manner. Is it actually an S&L product and if so what frame type is it? Would appreciate any opinions on it.

Many thanks

Patrick

[Patrick W]

,,

[Thomas H]

Fake

[Flemming]

I would only buy this as a space filler, if the price was right.
Does not look like a original RK to me.

/Flemming

[kraut72]

not

[streptile]

I would call this "postwar." It's not a wartime piece, but it seems to me to couple wartime S&L parts with postwar manufacturing techniques and construction. It's probably actually of some interest to some collectors/researchers of the RK. Closeups of the stamps would be interesting. I am no RK expert, so let's wait and hear from others.

[Patrick W]

Thanks for the opinions guys

Trevor- thanks, what parts would you say are wartime- the frame? It doesn't appear to be flawed like the B type?
I was sure it wasn't your common repro, will look forward to some further comments

Thanks

Patrick

[streptile]

Thanks for the opinions guys

Trevor- thanks, what parts would you say are wartime- the frame? It doesn't appear to be flawed like the B type?
I was sure it wasn't your common repro, will look forward to some further comments

Thanks

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

I'm not 100% sure about the frame -- others will know. But I think the core may be at least struck from the wartime dies. The numerals seem a good match to those I've seen. Is it magnetic?

[M B CHISHOLM]

The ring appears to "dip" for me.. do not like it.

[Patrick W]

The core is magnetic, thanks

[Leroy]

I have seen this exact same core used with an RK which employed post-1957 (multiple raised beading flaws) S&L frames. I have no confidence, however, that S&L did the assembling on that cross. The core has, I believe, some relationship to an earlier Schickle core (mentioned but not pictured in Dietrich's book).

The frame here is based on the S&L (but then again so was the Schickle). The 800-4 markings are not the S&L 800-4 markings.

My best guess is a postwar assembled cross using leftover parts (whether Schickle, S&L or, even, the still unknown Deumer).

Something was happening in Ludenscheid in the 1960's-70's involving collusion between dealers and factories (and certainly not just S&L). It would be interesting to know what "2nd shift and weekend shift" activity took place. Despite their protestations, I would look closely at Assmann and Deumer.

As Trevor said, an interesting cross and well worth studying.

[Patrick W]

Wow thanks Leroy, interesting stuff! well thats the nearest I 've had to an original cross in that case! I will post some weights and measurements later

Thanks again

[Ludwig]

That´s a bad one, I´m afraid.