I thought that this would be the place for this type of discussion as these two issues are most pertinent to cases and packets, as well as ribbons. This is an issue that has bothered me for quite a while and I recently brought up some of my research in another thread. Wrong place for it in retrospect. So maybe this would be the place to start a meaningful discussion on Rayon and blacklight testing.
Here is what is irking me. The thought that Rayon is a synthetic fiber and that anything containing this material is deemed reproduction or fake. Also that its "glowing" under blacklight testing is evidence of this.
Let me start by saying that Rayon was in fact in mass production throughout North America and Europe well before WWII. It was first developed in France in 1890 as "artificial silk" and by 1924 the term Rayon was coined. It is a natural fiber arising from wood pulp and is not synthetic like nylon or polyester. By the 1930's rayon was quite commonly used both for tire cord and clothing ect.....
Germany most certainly had rayon available before, early and late in the war. This is evidenced in an Allied bombing report of German industries in the Ruhr..
Nitrogen<SUP>4</SUP> is essential to war. Military powders and high explosives require nitrogen (in the form of nitric acid) for their production. Fixed nitrogen is also vital to agriculture; the Germans considered 2.2 pounds of nitrogen equivalent to 33.1 pounds of cereals. In addition to the large-volume applications of obviously critical military concern, nitrogen plays many secondary, less critical roles in the manufacture of rocket propellants, dyes, lacquers, plastics, rayon, films, drugs, and salts for case hardening of metals.
As well as by reports presented in the Nuremberg trials....
Here is what is irking me. The thought that Rayon is a synthetic fiber and that anything containing this material is deemed reproduction or fake. Also that its "glowing" under blacklight testing is evidence of this.
Let me start by saying that Rayon was in fact in mass production throughout North America and Europe well before WWII. It was first developed in France in 1890 as "artificial silk" and by 1924 the term Rayon was coined. It is a natural fiber arising from wood pulp and is not synthetic like nylon or polyester. By the 1930's rayon was quite commonly used both for tire cord and clothing ect.....
Germany most certainly had rayon available before, early and late in the war. This is evidenced in an Allied bombing report of German industries in the Ruhr..
German Chemical Industry
NitrogenNitrogen<SUP>4</SUP> is essential to war. Military powders and high explosives require nitrogen (in the form of nitric acid) for their production. Fixed nitrogen is also vital to agriculture; the Germans considered 2.2 pounds of nitrogen equivalent to 33.1 pounds of cereals. In addition to the large-volume applications of obviously critical military concern, nitrogen plays many secondary, less critical roles in the manufacture of rocket propellants, dyes, lacquers, plastics, rayon, films, drugs, and salts for case hardening of metals.
As well as by reports presented in the Nuremberg trials....
Taken from “the Nuremberg Trials Volume 6”
22 Jan. 46
in 1938 the needs in textile products amounted in Belgium to a monthly average of twelve kilos. The respective figures for the occupation years are the following: 1940 to 1941-2.1 kilos per head, 1941 to 1942-1.4, 1942 to 1943-1.4, 1943 to 1944-0.7. The diminution of Belgian consumption under the Germans is contained in these two figures; twelve kilos per head in 1938; 0.7 kilo at the end of the occupation. - On the other side, the Belgian Government gives the following details on the pillage of this produce. Compulsory deliveries to Germany during the occupation amounted to: Cotton yam, about 40 percent of the production; linen, 75 percent; rayon, 15 percent.
22 Jan. 46
in 1938 the needs in textile products amounted in Belgium to a monthly average of twelve kilos. The respective figures for the occupation years are the following: 1940 to 1941-2.1 kilos per head, 1941 to 1942-1.4, 1942 to 1943-1.4, 1943 to 1944-0.7. The diminution of Belgian consumption under the Germans is contained in these two figures; twelve kilos per head in 1938; 0.7 kilo at the end of the occupation. - On the other side, the Belgian Government gives the following details on the pillage of this produce. Compulsory deliveries to Germany during the occupation amounted to: Cotton yam, about 40 percent of the production; linen, 75 percent; rayon, 15 percent.
So why would this material not be used in cases and for ribbons? Doesn't make sense to me.
Now let me jump to the blacklight test. Yes Rayon does glow under blacklight, a function of a nitrogen phosphor used in its manufacture. So to me the blacklight test in this instance proves nothing. Does any of this mean rayon WAS used by TR medal manufacturers.....No. It means they may have.
Now let me harp on the blacklight test itself. The whole concept of the blacklight is that the light energy it emmits causes electrons in elements known as phosphors to reach an excited state and "glow". Of course this is simplified for ease of reading, but that's the jist of it. Now, there are literally thousands of occurring phosphors used in or a byproduct of many manufacturing proccesses in the textile industry.
Why do we care? Because the prevailing argument for using the blacklight test on packets centers on the notion that the method of paper bleaching in the TR era was different then that used post 1950. Undoubtably true, however both methods involve chemicals that are phosphors. Now, the post 1950 method involves phosphors that are more persistant and in greater concentration, but the method used pre and during WWII also involved chemicals that are phosphors. What's my point......Authentic WWII era paper packets can and in many instances will glow.
I know this has been a lengthy post so I'll stop now. Lets see if anyone else has wondered about this, and if so I can eloborate more on what I have found about the methods of paper production during the early 1900's through the 1950's. It may shed some light on this whole blak light test issue.
Now let me jump to the blacklight test. Yes Rayon does glow under blacklight, a function of a nitrogen phosphor used in its manufacture. So to me the blacklight test in this instance proves nothing. Does any of this mean rayon WAS used by TR medal manufacturers.....No. It means they may have.
Now let me harp on the blacklight test itself. The whole concept of the blacklight is that the light energy it emmits causes electrons in elements known as phosphors to reach an excited state and "glow". Of course this is simplified for ease of reading, but that's the jist of it. Now, there are literally thousands of occurring phosphors used in or a byproduct of many manufacturing proccesses in the textile industry.
Why do we care? Because the prevailing argument for using the blacklight test on packets centers on the notion that the method of paper bleaching in the TR era was different then that used post 1950. Undoubtably true, however both methods involve chemicals that are phosphors. Now, the post 1950 method involves phosphors that are more persistant and in greater concentration, but the method used pre and during WWII also involved chemicals that are phosphors. What's my point......Authentic WWII era paper packets can and in many instances will glow.
I know this has been a lengthy post so I'll stop now. Lets see if anyone else has wondered about this, and if so I can eloborate more on what I have found about the methods of paper production during the early 1900's through the 1950's. It may shed some light on this whole blak light test issue.
. My intention was not to make anyone feel that way. The thread you started was just the nail in the coffin for me, I had been looking into this since attending a show at Stuttgart last year. I have heard numerous times "..well does it glow....well then it's no good." And that is just not accurate, hence I piped in on your thread which was the wrong place in retrospect. So no insult intended
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