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    #1

    1914 EK2 Variant info required..

    Hi all..

    I'm trying to build an Iron Cross collection based on rare Variants only, but I'm stumped when it comes to the 1914 EK2..

    What is considered a 'variant' for this era and class- or is the 1914 EK2 quite possibly THE most unremarkable of the EK series??

    I've figured it probably just boils down to a rare maker or two, but your thoughts (and photo's) would be much appreciated..

    NO Third Reich issues though, please.....rare and variant period issue only..

    Cheers

    Marshall
    Tags: None
    #2
    --Good question. A premier maker mark will make them more expensive I think, but I think you have statistically as good a chance running into a 'Wilm' as a 'WS' or 'Y' (maybe a little less of a chance than encountering a KO).
    --I personally like well executed unmarked crosses as I believe them to be among the earliest ones produced, making them likely wartime issues. This is a personal theory of mine, nothing more.
    --I think that looking for strange features is probably the way to go with these 'unremarkable' EK's. I for one have a 'wide-framed' version (not 3rd Reich issue) that I happen to like a lot, nice silver content too from the looks of it. Can post a picture later if you want....

    Comment

      #3
      Hello Biro,

      You've undertaken a grand and noble task. I've been collecting Iron Crosses for 38+ years and there's no end in sight. Just when I think there can be no more I seem to come up with another one a bit different than what I have. The variants can be as simple as frame shape and sizes to materials used such as brass, steel, silver and nickel silver. Core details can be low profile or high, beautifully detailed to impressionist blobs. The cores can be finely finished with enamel, rust blued like the finish on a Luger pistol or in rare cases glass enameled or just left the dark black/grey color of plain cast iron. Smooth surfaces to finely pebbled. TR and '57 era made examples would be legitimate inclusions. You can further expand the scope by the various medal bar and lapel mountings that are known. And finally(?) there are the wonderful cased examples.

      I'm not trying to scare you here but to paraphrase the old Jay's potato chip slogan You can't just have one.

      Best regards and good hunting!

      Tony
      An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

      "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

      Comment

        #4
        Thanks boys...I figured as much.

        I have a 'WILM' - although the cross itself is not that special - and figured that's about my lot...but now, I want a 'rare glass enamled one'

        See, Tony, see what you've done.....!!


        Marshall

        Comment

          #5
          impressionist blobs
          --Haha! Got one`a doze!
          --Love to get a blued cross, or Onyx for that matter, but you just don't see `em. Hence the term 'rare' huh?
          -- Love a blued cross but ain't got one!

          Comment

            #6
            Marshall,

            I'm glad I can help..........(you do know that you're flirting with an obsession bordering madness)

            Tony
            An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

            "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

            Comment

              #7
              --"Bordering", Tony???

              Comment

                #8
                Bill,

                Okay you win! It is a rather pleasant form of madness!

                The variations can be quite endless. Blued core crosses are some of my favorites. At this time I have four examples of that subgroup. Screwback and pinback EKIs and a standard and prinzen EKII. I can take some pictures for the archives if you would like. In the right light they are just stunning.

                Personally I think the crosses described as being onyx are actually black glass enameled like the Woman's and Maiden's Cross of 1870-71. Onyx being a stone would be next to impossible to efficiently work into the EK shape with any lasting durability. Sounds good but IMO a misnomer.

                They're out there, you just have to find someone willing to sell.

                All the best!

                Tony
                An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                Comment

                  #9
                  Tony,

                  Yes! Please show your blued examples!


                  Also, I believe that there actually were a few onyx crosses made for Bavarian nobility during WW1. When I find the article, I'll give the pertinent info.

                  But yes, the glass-core examples are more common, yet rare as hen's teeth!

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Eric,

                    I'll need to get to the bank to retrieve them for the photos. I'll try to get to it as soon as I can do. Early next week. It'll be good to see them again.

                    I would like to see a genuine onyx example as I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas on those. But never say never! I'd be interested in that article.

                    It's time for my nightcap as I have an early start tomorrow. I'll have the pictures as soon as I can.

                    Best regards,

                    Tony
                    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                    "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hey Tony,


                      Back when I was a poor student attending a university in Munich, there was a very highbrow antique shop that was run by a guy by the name of Czerny. I used to pop in from time to time in order to ogle his stuff, which included many very rare and high end Imperial orders and decorations. He was a nice guy and liked to have a rapt audience (me!) in attendance. He let me look at and inspect things which at the time were way beyond my means. Last I heard he moved to Italy and opened up an auction house that deals primarily with pre 18th century militaria. Anyways, I do have an article somewhere that concerns the onyx crosses- I saved it because it was a remembrance of the crosses I once held.

                      Anyways, post those blued suckers on a fresh thread! I, for one, will promise to appreciate them!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        I googled the guy and this is what I got! I guess he's still kicking!


                        Marshall, sorry for derailing your thread, BTW.

                        The '14 EK2 realm is fun to build a collection based on rare variants simply because of the sheer amount of awarded pieces. There were so many makers who were manufacturing these pieces without the stringent guidelines found during the later years (NS). On the other hand, that may be exactly why collecting 1914 EK2s might be so interesting, because the flow of 'oddball' variants seem to pop up incessantly!
                        Last edited by Eric Stahlhut; 06-04-2008, 08:50 PM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Marshall,,
                          As these are the last "common" items to collect, in addition to maker's marks I am aiming for a few specific patterns:

                          1. Crown/moon/silver content mark on the ring.
                          2. Silver content mark on the frame edge.
                          3. Brass example.
                          4. Steel example.
                          5. Assembled frame example (Previteria p.180)
                          6. A TR era maker marked example.
                          7. "Blued Core" example.

                          I think this is realistic, except perhaps for #5. I have no illusion of ever actually finding the example with the enameled or glass core, and will settle for seeing a few posted. The "other" Tony

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tony & Kaiser
                            I have no illusion of ever actually finding the example with the enameled or glass core, and will settle for seeing a few posted. The "other" Tony
                            ME TOO!!! - although interestingly, these are referred to by Previtera as onyx....
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi all,

                              here are some shots of my `wilm` M M cross.

                              aSHLEY
                              Attached Files

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